New PowerLinc won't sync certain devices

I had to replace a completely dead 2413U with a shiny new 2413U and now I'm struggling to get it to sync to a handful of my devices.

Indigo's batch sync when replacing the PowerLinc updated most of my devices and a manual "Define & Sync" worked for about a dozen of them (mainly i2CS devices). Now there are about five that stubbornly will not sync no matter what I do.

If I do "Define & Sync" I'll just get a handful of these before it gives up:

Code: Select all

  PowerLinc                       Linking - sending id request for device information to 18.39.AA
  PowerLinc                       Linking - no response from device


And if I just do "Re-Sync Links" it'll transfer a couple links very, very slowly and then give up completely after a couple go through.

This seems to point to power line noise or phase issues, but I don't think that's it. The old PowerLinc talked to these devices just fine (and in general I've never had any noise-like issues in my setup in the last five years). But also, the new PowerLinc reliably and immediately receives every command these devices SEND; it just can't seem to talk to them.

I'm pretty sure each circuit that's involved has one or more dual-band devices right on the circuit, but I tried moving a plug-in dual-band device onto the same circuit just to make double, triple, extra sure. No effect. I've tried unplugging everything else on the circuit. No effect. I've tried syncing at various times of day and night. No effect.

What else do I need to be trying?

I assume they are not battery devices that might be asleep.

Good clarification — these are all wired-in switches/dimmers.

[jay (support)]

Run a long (outdoor) extension cord from the room where the device(s) are to the PowerLinc and try again. That would 1) tell you if it's some kind of signal issue and 2) would get you through the linking process. Linking is a very network intensive process so it's possible that they'll work OK under normal operation once you get the linking done.

[MODERATOR NOTE] moved to the Insteon forum.

I was eventually able to re-link each of my stubborn devices by plugging the PowerLinc directly into those circuits (via extension cord). Unfortunately, with the PowerLinc back on its regular circuit, routine traffic still doesn't make it to those devices reliably. It's like my old modem was just more powerful than the new one is. The PowerLinc still receives inbound traffic perfectly (as far as I can see, anyway — I don't know how many network-level retries are required, but Indigo's logs show updates immediately). It's just outbound messages to the devices that only seem to make it about half the time.

I'm not going to fight with it anymore at this point. I'll just write up a script to retry failed commands until they work. Then long-term I'm hoping as I replace dead switches with new dual-band units the denser dual-band network will make it a non-issue.


I did uncover two unrelated issues in the update I'll document for posterity if they should prove helpful for anyone in the future:

1. During the initial re-linking I somehow managed to get a few pairs of battery devices linked together (e.g., a remote trying to control a motion sensor). I'm guessing in the process of pressing and holding set buttons for all those syncs I ended up with devices in linking mode without realizing it. I just had Indigo remove those extra links afterward one by one.

2. I also lost a bunch of basic links on both battery and wired devices. I had a remote that suddenly had no responders, for example. I don't know if this is because those links weren't marked "Persistent" and Indigo overwrote them or if there was some unrelated corruption in the on-board link databases, but either way some links just disappeared. I had Indigo add those links back after the dust had settled.

[jay (support)]

Those symptoms are very common in environments with high signal noise so I'm a bit doubtful that more dual-band devices will help if they were working at one point. Do you know how your original 2413U died? If it was some kind of power surge, it may be that the same surge may have caused issues with other devices such that they are adding noise to the line.

Bottom line - I think you're going to have to do more signal analysis before you can really figure out how to solve the issue. The 3rd party Survey plugin may help to identify areas where there are issues.

I'd like to bump this thread. I'm having a very similar issue (running the latest v6 release), but I'm very certain this isn't a line noise issue for me.

My 2413U died inexplicably, too. It wasn't a power surge. I employ a whole-home surge suppressor and I monitor several key circuits for overvolt/undevolt conditions; according to the Indigo log the modem died shortly after midnight, and the power at that time was smooth and steady. The modem simply gave up the ghost. I opened the unit and examined it under magnification and I can find nothing physically wrong with it. No blown fuses, no loose contacts, no obviously failed or burned components, no capacitors leaking goo all over the motherboard.

This evening, I plugged in the replacement 2413U and fully half my devices failed to sync. The error for every failed device was:

Failed to send command to module - PowerLink not in module's database -- try the define and sync process in the device dialog
Linking - Sync failed

Now, when I select one of the failed devices and click Re-Sync links, the sync process starts and gets to this point (this happens to be an 8-button KeypadLinc I'm syncing)

Linking - . . . read: configuration setting FC, kaypad in 8 button mode

There, it pauses for about 10 seconds, then times out with the exact same errors. However, if I click the Define and sync button, then run over to the device in question and push and hold the sync button until it beeps, then the sync/link process happens just fine. This is why I don't believe the process is line noise related. In fact. I tried this on a device that's on the same circuit with the modem. I clicked Re-Sync links ten times in a row and had ten failures. Then I clicked Define and sync, pushed the sync button on the switch, and and synced without a problem.

The "not in module's database" bit makes it sounds like it's communicating, but the KeypadLinc doesn't have the address of the old/failed modem. If this is the case, though, I don't understand why this would cause Indigo to fail to insert the the modem's address.

Anyhow, I have far too many devices for me to easily run around and manually re-sync everything... is there any hope of anything else I can try to just force these things to re-sync?

--Jeff

I do remember when doing the initial syncs I had to do a bunch of devices by hand as you described, and that worked well for those. I think that was mostly with the newer i2CS units. As far as I could tell, there was no workaround for that; I just ran around the house for an hour pressing buttons.

I did determine that all my devices that remained unresponsive even after all that have something in common: they're all older version 4.35 firmware, whereas most of my house is on 5.4 or newer. While the old modem had no trouble talking to the 4.35 devices, the new one reaches them only intermittently. Putting a 4.35 device on a circuit that was working makes it suddenly not work; putting a 5.4 device on a "broken" circuit makes it suddenly work. And swapping out an older switch for a shiny new one fully resolves the problem. That's just an expensive and labor-intensive long-term fix.

In the short term, the "real" solution is that I simply have a script that retries commands to the handful of impacted devices a dozen times, and one of those attempts (multiplied by the built-in INSTEON network-level retries) usually works.

[jay (support)]

Indigo 6 requires you to individually do the Define and Sync for each i2CS (newer) device when replacing PowerLincs. You shouldn't need to wake them up unless they're battery powered.