Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

Posted on
Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:30 pm
keitharris offline
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Joined: Dec 30, 2012

Re: Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

auto_man wrote:
On several occasions after power failures or after intentionally unplugging my 2413U, after power is restored or after manually plugging back in, the unit would not connect to Indigo and appeared to be dead. I thought "oh no" I don't want to go through a replacement and re-syncing everything.

After the first time this occurred, I happened to plug the unit back in after about an hour and suddenly it was connecting and working again. Each subsequent time I've had the "can't connect problem", I've left the unit unplugged for 30 minutes or so, and then plugged it back in. Magically it's working again. Every time!



Yesterday morning Indigo sent it Power Outage email. Funny thing, I was at home and didn't notice any power glitches so I ignored it. Last night my wife mentioned that NO lights were on when she arrive home after dark. When I checked my 2413U the green light wasn't on. I unplugged and took it to another outlet thinking a breaker might have tripped. Nothing! However, as I wiggled it out of the receptacle I noticed a faint flicker of red and green from the LED light, but nothing seemed to help.

Resolved that it only lasted three years and I needed to order a new one I went to my back-up plan – the USB dongle (2448A7) I got two years ago come December.

Switched Interfaces to the 2448A7 and during the sync process received error after error after error message in the log. Found a post suggesting to Redefine the devices. Still no communications. My home automation is dead in the water!!!

Called SmartHome about the 2448A7 which should still be under warranty and they had no problem with doing an RMA and were even willing to cross-ship it so I could be back up and running tomorrow. (I'm in Ventura where 1 day delivery is likely.)

Before contacting SmartHome I wanted to see if there was something else I needed to do in Indigo to get the 2448A7 to work and found this thread in the forum. Hadn't gotten this far down the thread by the time I spoke with the SmartHome representative. When I read about the 2413U sometimes working again after being unplugged for a period I decided to give it a try, especially since I'd noticed those faint flickers of the LED. I plugged the USB cable into the interface, plugged the interface into the wall and the green light lit up steady as ever.

Switched interfaces and a new Sync and only got one error message. The device I'd tried to Redefine using the 2448A7 needed to be Redefined again back to the 2413U Interface. Did some tested from Indigo and at wall switches and everything worked as designed. I was very happy.

Lesson learned: First, try the leaving the 2413U unplugged for a period. Second, I had never tested my back-up, the 2448A7, so after the replacement arrives I will go through the arduous process of switching interfaces (and even redefining critical devices if necessary) to ensure it works before I really need it again. Third, it is probably worthwhile to have a spare 2413U on hand so I will keep an eye out for a good deal on one.

All of this is to say think you for your suggestion to leave the 2413U unplugged for awhile to see if it comes back to life after playing possum. Its gotten my home automation system back up and running sooner than I'd been expecting. :D

Posted on
Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:16 am
eme jota ce offline
Posts: 618
Joined: Jul 09, 2009
Location: SW Florida

Re: Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

matt (support) wrote:
Note if you are replacing the 2413U then you'll need to re-Define/Sync each device individually (via the Device dialog). Unfortunately, the batch Sync All option doesn't work with most INSTEON modules because of a change in their firmware (i2CS). Indigo's Define/Sync command can reprogram them to point to the new PowerLinc, but Indigo's Sync All operation cannot. We hope to have that improved in the next major release of Indigo 7, but that unfortunately won't help you the next day or two.


Just lost my second 2413U of 2016. Not sure if it's a quality control issue or linked to Florida's relatively frequent power outages, storms, etc.

Do we need to Define and Sync all the insteon modules when replacing a 2413U or just the modules mentioned in the log above the message that says, "... try the Define and Sync process in the device dialog"? Do ceiling fan modules need to be since twice, once as Fan and once as Light? Also, is the word "module" a term of art covering some but not all Insteon devices?

It's a long an tedious process to Define and Sync all of them, several devices take more than a minute to Define & Sync.

Posted on
Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:42 am
matt (support) offline
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Re: Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

You can do a Sync All first, then go back through and Define/Sync any modules that show the error in the Event Log. FanLincs are only sync'd once since both the fan and light are under the same INSTEON address.

We aren't totally consistent, but often times when Indigo refers to a module it is referring to the physical home automation hardware (lamp module, switch module, etc.). Once in Indigo you then create an Indigo Device that is linked to that hardware module.

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Posted on
Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:39 am
eme jota ce offline
Posts: 618
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Location: SW Florida

Re: Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

matt (support) wrote:
You can do a Sync All first, then go back through and Define/Sync any modules that show the error in the Event Log. FanLincs are only sync'd once since both the fan and light are under the same INSTEON address.


Thanks for the quick, helpful reply.

Posted on
Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:17 pm
Ryanide offline
Posts: 6
Joined: Sep 19, 2011

Re: Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

OMG replacing the Powerlinc is just extremely painful. My client has over 300 Insteon keypads/dimmers. I just spent 6 hours and barely scratched the surface of the number of devices that have been re-defined.

This is an absolute nightmare. I want to kill myself now. :(

Can the Admin please post if it is possible to create a backup or duplicate Powerlinc? Is there any other way to prevent having to do this every time the Powerlinc dies? I just upgraded the client to Indigo 7 and it still requires a re-define. And sometimes the link is not successful until the second or third time trying to get the devices to link, and even then sometimes they fail to respond.

I wish there was a better way to trouble shoot errors and devices that do not respond. Any suggestions????

Posted on
Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:54 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

Indigo 7 doesn't require a full re-define. A re-sync (either individually or via re-sync all) should work.

That said, resyncing (reading and writing links, which requires longer and more error prone extended INSTEON commands)) can be very delicate. If there is power line noise or INSTEON collisions then it can fail. Indigo retries reading and writing each link several times, but it can still fail if the INSTEON network environment isn't optimal. If you are having errors, then I'd suggest removing the power (unplugging and air-gapping off switches by pulling out the LED pipes) on half or more of your devices and doing the re-sync in batches. That might help reduce collisions. There is no way to backup the PowerLinc since each one has a unique INSTEON address that cannot be modified. That is why the re-sync of links has to occurs – so Indigo can update all the links in the remote modules to point to the new PowerLinc's address.

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Posted on
Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:06 pm
Ryanide offline
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Joined: Sep 19, 2011

Re: Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

In my case the old Powerlinc was installed and died while Indigo 6 was active. I did the upgrade to Indigo 7 at the same time that the powerlinc was replaced. It did a batch update on version 7 when I changed the powerlinc interface. However, indigo was not able to communicate to the Devices until I re-defined them.

I found one 2477D that was bad and possible causing noise in the lines.

I'm going to continue with the re-define and try air-gapping some of the switches in the process.
Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

Posted on
Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:47 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

How specifically was indigo unable to communicate with the devices?

To troubleshoot this we would need the Event Log window snippet (copy/paste) showing the re-sync of a module, and then the subsequent failure after that when Indigo isn't able to control the module.

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Posted on
Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:07 pm
SSteve offline
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Re: Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

I think I might also have a dying 2413U. Starting about a week ago I'm getting a lot of "send failed (no acknowledgment)" messages and also tons of repeated incoming messages. (Z-Wave devices are working fine.) For example:

Code: Select all
Dec 27, 2016, 7:41:12 PM
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Motion - Front Door
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Motion - Front Door
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Motion - Front Door
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Motion - Front Door
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Motion - Front Door
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Motion - Front Door
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Motion - Front Door
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Motion - Front Door
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Motion - Front Door
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Motion - Front Door
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Motion - Front Door
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Motion - Front Door
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Motion - Front Door
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Motion - Front Door
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Bedroom - Indirect" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Bedroom - Indirect" on
  Received INSTEON                "Bedroom - Indirect" on
  Received INSTEON                "Bedroom - Indirect" on
  Received INSTEON                "Bedroom - Indirect" on
  Received INSTEON                "Bedroom - Indirect" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Bedroom - Indirect" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Bedroom - Indirect" on
  Received INSTEON                "Bedroom - Indirect" on
  Received INSTEON                "Bedroom - Indirect" on
  Received INSTEON                "Bedroom - Indirect" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" off (button 1)
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" off (button 1)
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" off (button 1)
  Received INSTEON                "Motion - Front Door" off (button 1)
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room - Xmas tree" on
  Error                           "Exterior - Front Door" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Entrance" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Front Door" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Entrance" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Front Door" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  NEST Home                       Bedroom Thermostat  last_connection updated to 2016-12-28T03:41:42.913Z
  Error                           "Exterior - Entrance" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Front Door" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Entrance" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Front Door" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Entrance" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Front Door" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  NEST Home                       Bedroom Thermostat  last_connection updated to 2016-12-28T03:42:52.303Z
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Entrance" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Received INSTEON                "Exterior - Front Door" off
  Error                           "Exterior - Entrance" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Front Door" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Entrance" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Front Door" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  NEST Home                       Bedroom Thermostat  last_connection updated to 2016-12-28T03:44:40.141Z
  Error                           "Exterior - Entrance" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Front Door" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Entrance" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Front Door" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Entrance" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Front Door" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Entrance" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Front Door" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Entrance" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Front Door" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Entrance" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Front Door" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)
  Error                           "Exterior - Entrance" on; send failed (no acknowledgment)


So far I've been able to get things going again by power cycling the 2413U. Is this definitely a sign of a dying PowerLinc or could it be caused by another dying device in the system? I'd hate to replace the PowerLinc if it's not the problem.

I haven't upgraded to v7 yet, but I'm getting ready to. If I do have to replace the PowerLinc, will re-syncing be easier with v7 than with v6?

Posted on
Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:08 am
jay (support) offline
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Re: Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

That error is almost always a sign of signal noise. A failing PowerLinc would normally throw USB communication errors, though not always.

I'd first try to see what else was going on (or turned on) while you're experiencing the issue. Use a long outdoor extension cord to run from an outlet in another room to your PowerLinc and see if the problem persists or goes away. If it stops, then there's probably something on the same circuit as the PowerLinc that's causing noise.

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Posted on
Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:32 am
SSteve offline
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Re: Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

I think it my case it was a dying PowerLinc. I unplugged it and left it off for ten minutes. When I plugged it back in, Indigo said "Failed to establish connection or open serial port to interface." When I power cycled it again I'm getting no lights at all and Indigo still can't see it. In some ways, this is better than a line noise problem because it's easier to fix. It costs some money but won't suck up a weekend day and those are getting to be priceless.

Should I install Indigo 7 before I hook up a new PowerLinc? Does it have an improved re-syncing experience over v6?

Posted on
Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:44 am
matt (support) offline
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Re: Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

Indigo 7 does have improved re-syncing. It can re-sync INSTEON modules that have the i2CS firmware, whereas Indigo 6 requires that you use the Define & Sync process individually on devices that have the i2CS firmware. So a Re-Sync All in Indigo 7 works much better when replacing a PowerLinc.

Note you still will have to wake sleeping (battery powered) modules, and some modules require manual re-syncing (IRLinc, EZIOs).

Image

Posted on
Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:59 pm
Ryanide offline
Posts: 6
Joined: Sep 19, 2011

Re: Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

When my PowerLinc Modem died, I had to do a Factory Reset on every device in order to get it to re-linc back to the new PowerLinc Modem. Without doing a Factory Reset the Dimmers and Keypads were not functioning correctly (they would turn on, but not turn off, linked programming was missing, etc).

I factory reset 240 devices, which took me 32 hours to complete. And now, it appears that maybe the new Powerlinc modem is no longer working. I have unplugged it with the hopes that it will reset it. Indigo Event Log indicated a possible power failure and then listed the Powerlinc as not connected.

The area has recently been plagued with multiple power outages, even though the house has a generator, it still disconnects the power for a bit.

UUUGGGHHHH!!! Crossing my fingers that it is not dead again.

Posted on
Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:59 pm
Ryanide offline
Posts: 6
Joined: Sep 19, 2011

Re: Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

Thankfully the PLM reset after being unplugged and all is working again.

I know that it is not recommended to use the PLM plugged into a UPS/Battery Backup, but I just tried it and all tested out just fine. The Indigo Touch and all timers seem to work just the same. I'm going to continue to keep it on the UPS for additional protection from all the power surges/power interruptions that keep happening in the area. The PLM is too critical and as so many pointed out it is the weakest (and only) link in the Insteon chain.

Is anyone else using a UPS??

Posted on
Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:06 pm
SSteve offline
User avatar
Posts: 84
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
Location: Sierra Foothills, California

Re: Dying PowerLinc 2413U?

Mine has been plugged in to a power supply for three years and has communicated to all my (~100) devices fine. When I hooked up my new one last Friday some devices wouldn't sync. I removed it from the UPS and plugged it straight in to the wall and the devices that wouldn't sync still won't sync. I haven't tried a long extension cord yet.

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