Automate the non moving bit of a lock?!

Hi all,
Apologies don’t know correct terminology for what i’m After but here goes.

Here in the UK I have a ‘normal’ front door which has a Yale night latch style main lock.

IMO there are no decent automation options for the lock barrel as they all require manual turning of the handle still which for me defeats the point

So what I’m thinking is instead of automating the nightlatch that needs to be mechanically turned and withdrawn to open the door, can I just use one of the ‘latch release’ style plates on the door frame that is very common in apartment blocks etc

Just wondered if anyone has done this ideally with zwave. So if I can release the latch then the door could just be pushed open.

EDIT: This is the kind of thing I mean https://www.edwardes.co.uk/en/products/ ... 00-systems

Hopefully this makes sense?!

Thanks all
Noel

Bit more research tonight and this is the kind of thing I was thinking of

https://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-popp-e ... oor-opener

Anyone done anything like this with indigo, is that module supported by indigo? I’ll do some more searching in a moment.

Hi,

Interesting that I have been pursuing a similar solution for a door with a lock that sounds similar to yours.

I have arrived at a similar conclusion that an electric strike with a control module is the way to go - although it would be great if some wireless/battery operated device was available to avoid the (almost impossible) task of running concealed wiring that would have the required WAF.

I am thinking along similar lines as you, but using an industry standard strike with a normal “in wall” ZWave switch module. I think that Philio offer a device that will operate at 24-48 volts DC and offers encrypted ZWave connection - but this needs further investigation. I also need to check if an extra strike is available to operate on a similar DC voltage to the switch module to avoid additional wiring.

Good luck with your search - please share your experiences!

Mclass




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I’m very lucky in that I have plug sockets right underneath where the lock strike plate is so that bit is ok for me.

Initial looking suggests this will be really easy, just need to find the right devices and have a lock plate that fails safe which most seem to do.

The great bit with this is that the Yale night latch will continue to work 100% normally, so to be honest i could implement this and not even tell the family that anything has changed. They keep using their keys etc as normal whilst I test and iron out the kinks before getting them involved.

It also opens up tons of choices of how to ‘release’ the latch

Keypad (if one exists that can integrate with indigo)
RFID tags,
Presence
Etc

Fingers crossed this continues to be as promising as it looks.

Will keep this thread updated, very keen to hear from anyone who has maybe done this or who has used the zwave popp module mentioned above

Interesting thread; I'd not seen that Popp module.

Unfortunately all my doors are uPVC multipoint locks so still can't use it, but i'll be following thread with interest.

Peter

Just a word of caution.. it's likely that a strike like that wouldn't be covered by insurance companies.. might be worth checking out what yours says on the subject before taking the plunge!

Good point well made.
My hope is that as I’d get a fail secure one That it will be. Will check into it

Ok making some progress with my plans.

Looking at purchasing:

1 x https://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-popp-e ... oor-opener

1 x https://www.locksonline.co.uk/GEM-GK350 ... latch.html

And hopefully i'll be away. Am aware there's some lock plugins that I need to read up on but I'm having some thoughts about the appropriate logic behind door unlocking.

So I have both the key yale lock and a handle to turn to open the door.

What I want is that when I approach the door the electric strike release disengages so that I can just use the handle therefore just needing one hand vs two at present (key and handle)

I can achieve that a number of ways main way I'm thinking of is using geofency pushes to indigo that would then release the latch. I.e. when I'm coming home, phone detected, latch releases and then auto engages again a specific time afterwards. Could also possible use a low range ibeacon for this as I have some of those here waiting for a purpose!

Downside to this is that if my phone were to be stolen or lost technically someone could walk up to the house and walk in.

Risk for that is pretty low as no one is likely to know I've got this setup aside from everyone on here and as far as I know you don't know where I live !

So....thoughts on the conditions or methods I should use to trigger the latch releasing? I could also have some outdoor buttons or a keypad as a backup maybe but ideally looking to keep this as seamless as possible so really like the idea of just walking up and it opening.

Cheers all

Noel

Brief update, locksonline actually sell a zwave module https://www.locksonline.co.uk/Access-Co ... odule.html Qubino maybe?

Regardless of whether I use that specific one or not it has opened up the possibility of using a relay instead of the specific Popp Zwave lock module.

Pro's of this: I can use a Fibaro relay that's fully supported.

Con's of this: The door lock will then be on or off whereas I assume lock devices have more meaningful statuses i.e. closed/open or locked/unlocked.

Can anyone that's using a lock module with Indigo advice what statuses they see/use?

Thanks
Noel

Locked or unlocked are the usual statuses with a real lock.. but with this your relay would report either on or off.

I’m assuming this device is Fail Secure? If not your door will unlock if something cuts the power.


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Oh and I’d strongly recommend against geolocation based opening/closing.. it’s pretty accurate these days but occasionally my phone will suddenly report being at home when it’s not been there for hours.. it’ll quickly update but it’s enough to trigger my existing geolocations and do things like turn the kettle on.


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Yep it’s fail secure so no worries on that point.

Thanks for the tip re geo location.

That suggests that using an iBeacon in the Porch is the best bet then as opposed to relying on god.

Any other logic or options I’m not thinking of?

Yep it’s fail secure so no worries on that point.

Thanks for the tip re geo location.

That suggests that using an iBeacon in the Porch is the best bet then as opposed to relying on god.

Any other logic or options I’m not thinking of?

Maybe multiple triggers. Ie geolocation or ibeacon and your phone being present on WiFi.

Payoff in security vs time delay and sometimes not triggering at all.


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I've got all kinds of fun ideas going in my mind....pressure mat under the door mat that needs a specific combination of hops/dances on it!

Lol could get interesting!

Con's of this: The door lock will then be on or off whereas I assume lock devices have more meaningful statuses i.e. closed/open or locked/unlocked.

Can anyone that's using a lock module with Indigo advice what statuses they see/use?

Thanks
Noel

If you use the Adapters Plugin in the Plugin Store then on/off can be open/closed , closed/open , locked/unlocked , Lock/Unlock, LOCKED/UNLOCKED.

My doors and windows all show open or closed and they all have Neo Door/Window sensors that just give off/on.

I put the Neo device in a Z_Not_Used device folder and rename to .Bathroom Window Sensor and the adapter is in the Bathroom folder with the same name but without the lead full stop before the device.


So that get rid of the Con's