Switching Door Sensors to Z-Wave... Preferred Sensor?

Posted on
Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:39 am
Swancoat offline
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Switching Door Sensors to Z-Wave... Preferred Sensor?

After switching my lighting away from Insteon to RadioRa2, all that's really left for Insteon to do for me is handle a bunch of door sensors. However, lately reliability has been brutal.

I've replaced my Insteon interface a couple of times (seem to fail a lot) and even when it does work, some sensors suddenly exhibit spotty reliability. I can't get them to show up and re-sync for anything it seems.

I've got a Z-Stick in my system currently interfacing with only a lock. But it's been bulletproof so far, so I just want to swap out these few Insteon sensors for Z-Wave and get rid of the interface entirely which leaves me with 2 questions:

1. Is there a preferred sensor? I see some from Fibaro or Aeon that look good. The Sensative strips look nice too. Just wondering which one has been the most reliable for most people. I don't really need bells and whistles. Just install, sync and change out batteries when required.

2. Z-Wave Networks: I dont' know a lot here, but it seems when you include a device, it has neighbors and such (probably how the 'mesh' works). Does that mean I should install a door sensor in position before syncing (as opposed to syncing at my desk and then going to hang it)?

3. Range: I don't have a full buildout of Z-Wave light switches to make a nice robust network. My Z-Wave Network is basically going to consist of Door Locks and Door Sensors. Are there range concerns with these things? (My current single lock is about 10 feet from my Z-Stick).

Thanks! I appreciate any insight or advice anyone has.

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Posted on
Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:43 am
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Re: Switching Door Sensors to Z-Wave... Preferred Sensor?

I've had excellent service from a couple of Monoprice in-door sensors, and they're on sale right now.

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Posted on
Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:50 am
Colorado4Wheeler offline
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Re: Switching Door Sensors to Z-Wave... Preferred Sensor?

You might consider keeping a hybrid system. Having had Insteon for 15+ years I can attest to it's durability and easy replacement. I've had a few hubs fail but I can get back up and running quickly, whereas I've had a couple Z-Stick failures and can attest that getting THAT back up and running is a MAJOR pain that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. It was simple when I had 2-3 Z-Wave devices, but now that there's 20 or so it sucks hard. Plus Insteon power switches (wall outlet, light switches, etc) seem to be more responsive and reliable than the Z-Wave that I've tried.

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Posted on
Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:09 am
DaveL17 offline
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Re: Switching Door Sensors to Z-Wave... Preferred Sensor?

1. I have Aeon and Strips and prefer the Strips essentially because my Aeon unit eats batteries for lunch. To be fair, the Aeon unit is on my garage door so it deals with wide variations in temperature and humidity. The strips unit is sealed and supposedly lasts 10 years on batteries. Also, the Strips sensor is very unobtrusive. -1 on initial cost, though.

2. The best approach in my opinion is to ALWAYS add Z-Wave devices to the network at their final location. When I move a device, I always exclude it and then re-include it at its new location (it's easy to assign the new device ID to the existing Indigo devices so that's not much of a hassle IMO).

3. There are range concerns and the mesh is your friend. Even adding a couple "dumb" repeaters can make a huge difference. There is another constraint having to do with the number of hops (I think the limit is four) but I've never run into an issue where an installed device couldn't communicate with the controller because of too many hops.

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Posted on
Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:12 am
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Re: Switching Door Sensors to Z-Wave... Preferred Sensor?

Colorado4Wheeler wrote:
Plus Insteon power switches (wall outlet, light switches, etc) seem to be more responsive and reliable than the Z-Wave that I've tried.

I have had tremendous success with Leviton in-wall switches and Cooper outlets. They're a bit spendy, but I've never had one fail and don't think I've ever had one no-ack on me.

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Posted on
Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:04 pm
howartp offline
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Re: Switching Door Sensors to Z-Wave... Preferred Sensor?

1. I've a couple of Fibaro and four Strips. Both work but I wouldn't be allowed to put Fibaro in public places. Agree with Dave about Strips battery.

2. It's not the inclusion that's the problem; you can include everywhere as long as you resync it. I often define at my desk then resync in situ.

Be aware/ remember that most battery devices don't contribute to the mesh - it uses too much battery to do so. The device count in hops is 6 from start to finish, including the controller and the actual device as two of those six. Plugged in repeaters, or simply some (e.g.) TKB sockets, will sort that.


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Posted on
Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:11 pm
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Re: Switching Door Sensors to Z-Wave... Preferred Sensor?

howartp wrote:
It's not the inclusion that's the problem; you can include everywhere as long as you resync it. I often define at my desk then resync in situ.

That surely works, but I'd recommend not only doing a resync after final install, but also a network optimization to clear out any neighbors that might not be able to reach the device in its final resting spot.

The device count in hops is 6 from start to finish, including the controller and the actual device as two of those six.

Didn't know the device and controller counted, so I suppose I was right by accident! :D

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Posted on
Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:48 am
Swancoat offline
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Re: Switching Door Sensors to Z-Wave... Preferred Sensor?

Thanks for all the replies... This is super useful stuff.

Sounds like the strips might be worth the cost - not for the cost of the batteries, but just for the convenience. (Although some of these sensors say they are repeaters too. If that is what uses the batteries, it may be worth it).

C4W... I really would prefer to keep a hybrid system. The Insteon sensors have worked really well in the past. However, the Interfaces seem like junk. I've had replace a couple recently, and it seems things have never really synced up properly since.

Before I go spend some money on Z-Wave, I might do a very painful full exorcism and reinstall of Insteon. Factory reset everything and go from there. This would probably entail also deleting the devices in Indigo to make sure that the Indigo database is flushed too. (It all sounds ok except for fixing all of the triggers that those sensors activate). On that note, is there an easier way to assign a sensor to a (non-Indigo) device other than a trigger for on and a trigger for off? Seems like the kind of thing that someone's made a plugin for that I'm not aware of.

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Posted on
Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:12 am
agame offline
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Re: Switching Door Sensors to Z-Wave... Preferred Sensor?

To throw in another consideration - cost of batteries. The exotic batteries in zwave door sensors are surprisingly expensive. Therefore I love the usb-rechargeable Aeotec door/window sensor (the triangular, surface mounted one). This doesn't suit every location, but where it does its great. Battery life is good provided polling is wound right back.

Posted on
Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:54 pm
CliveS offline
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Re: Switching Door Sensors to Z-Wave... Preferred Sensor?

I thought Sensitive Strips were the way to go, expensive but out of sight and 10 years of trouble free use......... unfortunately out of 5 I now have 3 that are dead within 2 years!
2 had been playing up and were put in a draw for testing/resetting but now will not respond to the magnet and the 3rd one was down to 5% battery life!!! but that has also now died....
So much for the 10 years life expectancy, the remaining 2 are still showing 100% battery life and all were setup exactly the same so they seemed a good idea at the time but I have now replaced a £49.00 ($63.00) Strips with a £12.66 ($16.50) Neo Coolcam NAS-DS01Z Z-wave Door Window Sensor which works just as well as the Strips but obviously it can be seen (mine are hidden behind blinds).
When you put it next to a Fibaro Universal Door & Window Sensor 2 at £43.00 ($55.50) it is not that much difference in looks and unless you need the temperature sensor you can buy 3.5 Neo's for the price of the Fibaro or almost 4 for the price of a Strips.
You will need some mains powered 'repeaters' and I agree with howartp about the TBK's, I have 2 being used as only repeaters (still waiting for the Aeotec Range Extender 6 with UK plug!!)
howartp wrote:
Be aware/ remember that most battery devices don't contribute to the mesh - it uses too much battery to do so. The device count in hops is 6 from start to finish, including the controller and the actual device as two of those six. Plugged in repeaters, or simply some (e.g.) TKB sockets, will sort that.


Oh, and the NEO's are now fully supported and working in Indigo 7.0

CliveS

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Posted on
Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:53 am
siclark offline
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Re: Switching Door Sensors to Z-Wave... Preferred Sensor?

I have had the same result with Sensative Strips. Of the 3 I bought one was DOA, the other 2 I struggled to pair with Vera and were put in a drawer for 6 months. One is now dead as well, refuses to respond to anything and the other one succesfully paired but showed only 25% and after 3 days has stopped responding.

Its a nice idea but too many people seem to have issues, and they just dont seem reliable enough for the cost.

Posted on
Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:18 am
DaveL17 offline
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Re: Switching Door Sensors to Z-Wave... Preferred Sensor?

That's disappointing news about the quality control issues with the Strips. Hopefully, they've figured out what was causing the issues because I really do like the form factor.

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Posted on
Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:41 am
CliveS offline
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Re: Switching Door Sensors to Z-Wave... Preferred Sensor?

Well I now have 5 (FIVE!!!) new Strips direct from Sensitive in Sweden, I bought 6 but one was just in warranty with Vesternet and I got a refund for that one, but the other 5 I managed to get swapped out, I think they wanted to look at the dead ones.
I will be putting the 5 new ones on eBay, brand new in box, direct from manufacturer, but never again putting them on my doors or windows.
Great that you cannot see them in situ but Indigo also has a problem seeing them as well after 18-24 months!

CliveS

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