Network Shift Between Z-Wave Controllers

Posted on
Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:14 am
Albatros offline
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Network Shift Between Z-Wave Controllers

I have a network off 75 z-wave devices and want to switch form Z-Stick S2 to Z-stick Gen5.

With the size and more important the dificulty to go to every the pysical device to exlude/include it again I would like to transfer it form my old stick to the new one. I found this article describing how to shift between controllers. Basicaly using the Zensys software and by including the Z-Stick Gen5 into the Z-Stick S2 network.

https://aeotec.freshdesk.com/support/so ... -z-sticks-

Makes sense to me but:

1. If the shift works as described, what still needs to be done in Indigo to make the new stick with the nodes/devices to work?
2. Does the description make sense and are there other ways than the tutorial to transfer the network besides exlude/include route?


Maybe a feature request for Indigo:
- Backup of a z-stick
- Switch from one to another controller

Posted on
Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:24 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Network shift beweent controllers, Z-Stick S2 to Z-stic

We have on our feature request list backing up of Z-Sticks, although that is only possible with the G5 Z-Stick (and we need to see if Aeotec will give us the details to make it work). The ability to controller shift isn't on the request list, but I'll add it.

I do believe a couple of other users have successfully shifted the data between Z-Sticks before, so maybe they'll chime in here. I believe once it is done the new Z-Stick will work without any changes needed in Indigo (no inclusion/exclusion or syncing needed). You'll need to select the correct serial port for the new Z-Stick (it will have usbmodem in the name), but if the network shift/transfer worked I think (but am not positive!) it will be pretty seamless once in Indigo.

Please let us know how it goes.

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Posted on
Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:12 am
Albatros offline
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Re: Network shift beweent controllers, Z-Stick S2 to Z-stic

Thanks Matt. Will let the forum know how it goes, planning now is around Christmas, but maybe others have experience they want to share. From their we can make a goed description how it would work for others as well.

I know people have:
- failing z-stick 2
- failing z-stick Gen5
- wanting to backup your network with a Gen5 z-stick
- wanting to backup your network with a UZB1 stick
- shifting networks from one to the other


This is what I found:

1. Backup of Z-stick G5 - success reported in this post
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=16503&hilit=backup+z+stick

2. Backup ZWAVE.ME UZB1- success reported in this post
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=16989&p=125726&hilit=backup#p125726
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15897&p=113920&hilit=backup+gen5#p113920

3. Network shift from Z-Stick S2 to Z-stick G5 - no succes reports yet....
https://aeotec.freshdesk.com/support/so ... -z-sticks-

4. Network shift from Z-Stick S2 to ZWAVE.ME UZB1


So any experience in, reports on succes, besides include/exclude route...let us know

Posted on
Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:00 am
DaveL17 offline
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Re: Network shift beweent controllers, Z-Stick S2 to Z-stic

Albatros wrote:
Will let the forum know how it goes, planning now is around Christmas, but maybe others have experience they want to share.

Curious to hear how this goes. I don't have access to 2 Windows PCs (I begrudgingly have access to 1!) but it might be worth the effort if your experience goes well.

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Posted on
Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:36 am
Umtauscher offline
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Re: Network shift beweent controllers, Z-Stick S2 to Z-stic

Hmm, I read the Aeotec instructions to do a controller shift.
Am I totally wrong or are the statements a sign that this cannot work?

They claim, that the new controller has the same node id id hat before making it the primary controller.
Wouldn't that mean, that the associatens in the various devices still go to the old stick, which has node id 1?

Posted on
Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:26 pm
richo offline
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Re: Network shift beweent controllers, Z-Stick S2 to Z-stic

Normally when you do a primary shift it will have a new ID. I have done it a few times using Zensys tool with Z-Stick2 and UZB-1. With some help from Matt I will be trying to find out if it's possible to change associations using python after the shift. If it works will let you know this week.


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Ryszard

Posted on
Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:48 am
Umtauscher offline
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Re: Network Shift Between Z-Wave Controllers

Well I'm still on the case:
A few days ago I contacted Aeotec about their controller-shift-howto and asked the following question:

If the new primary controller gets a new id, what will happen with the associations of the devices? Normally the id of the primary controller is 1 and all devices have associations to it. If I remove the S2 stick, how will changes be reported be the devices? Please explain.
Thanks in advance.


Their answer was:
Typically, the associations should change to the new primary controller here automatically to reflect the changes of a new primary controller.

Although there are certain devices such as our Minimote which are tied directly to Node 1 for scene trigger communication and under these cases could cause issues.

It is possible that some of your devices may not see the new changes, and may require you to manually set the association again.

As another possibility, you could unpairing and pair back the Z-Stick Gen5 until it becomes Node 1 again then shift the primary role to the controller.
Unpairing until it get node 1 again? Seriously?

Well, this shows, (in my opinion) that a controller shift will allways leave a z-wave installation in an unusable state. As long as the new primary controller will not get node_id 1 it will not work.
Cheers
Wilhelm

Posted on
Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:19 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Network Shift Between Z-Wave Controllers

Oh, that isn't cool. Either modules should not be hardcoded to think that node 01 is special, or there needs to be a controller shift functionality that allows the controller ID to remain the same after the shift. It is aggravating when there are "almost solutions" that sound good in theory but have a fatal gap like this. I guess it isn't fatal for all scenarios/networks, but it will be for some.

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Posted on
Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:20 pm
DaveL17 offline
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Re: Network Shift Between Z-Wave Controllers

Thanks for this. Given your experience and the fact that the shift requires two Windows computers, I will be passing on the shift and go instead for a straight replacement. I hope to be able to do this before New Years. So far, I've been very impressed with the Gen5 stick.

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Posted on
Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:53 pm
Umtauscher offline
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Re: Network Shift Between Z-Wave Controllers

Well, for me it's clear that If I will have to go this route I will most certainly not invest again my money in Aeotec.
.

Posted on
Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:25 pm
howartp offline
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Re: Network Shift Between Z-Wave Controllers

DaveL17 wrote:
Thanks for this. Given your experience and the fact that the shift requires two Windows computers, I will be passing on the shift and go instead for a straight replacement. I hope to be able to do this before New Years. So far, I've been very impressed with the Gen5 stick.

Ditto.


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Posted on
Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:07 pm
richo offline
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Re: Network Shift Between Z-Wave Controllers

Hi,

I've been doing some testing over the weekend with my UZB1. In my opinion these are better then Aotec. Now you can buy US version or any other and change the frequency to US so it shouldn't be an issue any more.

In my current scenario I have been using UZB1 as a Primary controller and Z-Stick2 as a secondary Inclusion controller. As you may have noticed in previous posts there is a good way to backup the UZB1 stick using Raspberry PI with Z-Way software. I have successfully shifted Primary controller back and forth using Zensys tool as posted by Albatros.
After the shift I have changed associations using the following script. Please note that it has been tested on limited number of nodes and I'm not sure how it may behave with all 90 nodes in my network. I plan to do it in groups of devices and unfortunately there are 2 issues:
1. With battery devices you need to wake up them individually for the association change or wait for the wake up
2. New controller node number is not immediately visible in the node info and in Indigo database - you still need to resynch all devices - very cumbersome with battery devices.

Anyway, here is the script if you wan to play with it:
Code: Select all
import simplejson as json

oldAssociation = 1
newAssociation = 99  #Use None just for removing the node from all groups i.ex. faulty
gnames = ['g1','g2','g3','g4','g5'] #group names

## Convenience log function
def log(msg):
   indigo.server.log(msg, type="Associations change")

debug = 1

#start iteration for all devices or in the list below
devIds = [1190943052, 1123456]

for devId in devIds:  #or all devices below
#for devId in indigo.devices.iter("indigo.zwave" "indigo.relay"):  #filter can be added for specific devices like relay, thermostst etc

   d = indigo.devices[devId]
   if d.ownerProps["zwDevSubIndex"] == 0 and d.ownerProps["SupportsBatteryLevel"] == False:   ##battery devices may be treated separately

      nrgroups = len(d.ownerProps['zwAssociationsMap'])
   
      for g in range(nrgroups): #g+1 = group number
         gname = gnames[g]
         glist = d.ownerProps['zwAssociationsMap'][gname]
         #indigo.server.log('device='+str(devId)+'  '+str(glist))
         gnritems = len(glist)
         if gnritems > 0:
            for gindex in range(gnritems):
               assoc = d.ownerProps['zwAssociationsMap'][gname][gindex]
               if debug: indigo.server.log('device='+str(devId)+' group=:'+gname+' assoc:'+str(assoc))
               if assoc == oldAssociation:
                  removeAssoc = [0x85, 0x04, g+1, oldAssociation]
                  indigo.zwave.sendRaw(device=devId, cmdBytes=removeAssoc, sendMode=1, waitUntilAck=True)
                  # Note sendMode is: 0=immediate, 1=immediateThenWaitForWake, 2=waitForWake
                  if newAssociation <> None:
                     addAssoc = [0x85, 0x01, g+1, newAssociation]
                     indigo.zwave.sendRaw(device=devId, cmdBytes=addAssoc, sendMode=1, waitUntilAck=True)

Ryszard

Posted on
Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:18 pm
Umtauscher offline
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Re: Network Shift Between Z-Wave Controllers

Hi guys,

today I succeeded with transfering my complete network to a Aetec Gen5 stick without rebuilding my complete network.
I have made a howto to document how I did it.
It's a pdf but I cannot attach it. So ask and I'll send it to you..

Cheers
Wilhelm

Posted on
Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:01 pm
Colorado4Wheeler offline
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Re: Network Shift Between Z-Wave Controllers

Umtauscher wrote:
It's a pdf but I cannot attach it. So ask and I'll send it to you..

I would be interested in reading your document. I don't need to migrate but I remember when I went from Gen 3 to Gen 5 it was horrible, and if I have to replace my Gen 5 at any point then there's also about 45 more devices than before.

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Posted on
Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:06 pm
durosity offline
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Re: Network Shift Between Z-Wave Controllers

Perhaps you could host it on a sharing site of some sort? It’d make interesting reading.

Computer says no.

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