[ANSWERED] Backup Z-Stick

Yesterday I went through about 15 Z-Wave devices, removed from Vera 3, included them on a Z-Stick and added in Indigo.

On around the 12th something went wrong. I started seeing odd things in the log about neighbours that shouldn't be there and the first few devices stopped working altogether. I also noticed that somehow my Home ID was 0 - which didn't seem right! I've given up and reset the Z-Stick using Homeseer's Z-Tool and will probably try again BUT

It has made me think.

What if I get to the 70th device (several days work probably at the rate I was going) and something else goes wrong with the Z-Stick.

There doesn't seem to be any way to backup and restore the Z-Stick. Is there ????

I really can't face doing days of work and losing it all.

[matt (support)]

Unfortunately, the Z-Stick does not include the "installer" version of the Z-Wave firmware (I wish it did), so it is not possible to backup or restore the included devices in the Z-Stick.

The EZController (aka Z-Troller), which is RS232 and needs a Keyspan Adapter to work with a Mac, does support the installer firmware library. Note that Indigo does not yet have the commands to use the backup/restore functionality, but adding support for them is on my ToDo list.

My two cents, I am relying to much on this system, even with an additional investment I bought Two z-sticks, every time I include/exclude one device I Do it twice, it's crazy, I know, but I positioned some of the units where I would not like to access again unless truly forced, therefore the redundancy in installation phase (for me) was crucial.

I also have an older miniMac ready to jump in case the server blows up for any reason, maybe "to much" but indigo + z-wave is a central part of daily life, therefore it needs to work, no failure allowed (by my wife ).

I would love to see a feature that allows backup & restore, it would make my life much easier.

Thanks ftp30 and matt

That clarifies things. I really don't feel comfortable without some form of backup.

What ftp30 suggests might work for me I guess but really I would have expected this to be thought through rather better by Aeon and/or the Z-Wave specifiers.

I'm really wondering now about moving from Vera 3 - it has many faults but at least you can back it up and restore in case of real disaster.

Unfortunately the Z-Troller option doesn't work for me as I'm in the UK and apparently there isn't a version with EU frequencies.

Thanks ftp30 and matt

That clarifies things. I really don't feel comfortable without some form of backup.

What ftp30 suggests might work for me I guess but really I would have expected this to be thought through rather better by Aeon and/or the Z-Wave specifiers.

I'm really wondering now about moving from Vera 3 - it has many faults but at least you can back it up and restore in case of real disaster.

Unfortunately the Z-Troller option doesn't work for me as I'm in the UK and apparently there isn't a version with EU frequencies.

Out of interest, other than the pain of having to re-sync everything, what issues would you have from losing it for a few days? I've got around this by using various different technologies and making sure they'll all independently controllable. Eg all the main lights in the house are controlled by fibaro z-wave dimmers, but they all have switches on the wall. For accent lighting they're run by way of cheap LightwaveRF and HomeEasy controllers and a rfxtrx433, and instead of zwave motion/magnetic sensors and what not for security, a DSC alarm + indigo plugin handles all of that. The theory is that if the z-stick fails the other accent lighting will still be controllable via indigo and vice versa, never leaving a room in the dark. And if indigo or its server fails all together then the lightswitches are still usable manually and the security system is still fully functional.

Out of interest, other than the pain of having to re-sync everything, what issues would you have from losing it for a few days? ...

I guess it depends on how dependant you are on the system and what level of pain you have to go through while the system is down. In my case with the Stella-Zs, I would have to temporarily remove them and replace them with TVRs. I would then be reliant on manually switching the boiler on and off or alternatively disconnecting the boiler actuator and wiring in a thermostat.

Having a backup would be a lot easier

Maybe its time to think about getting a spare Z-Stick

I guess it depends on how dependant you are on the system and what level of pain you have to go through while the system is down. In my case with the Stella-Zs, I would have to temporarily remove them and replace them with TVRs. I would then be reliant on manually switching the boiler on and off or alternatively disconnecting the boiler actuator and wiring in a thermostat.

Having a backup would be a lot easier

Maybe its time to think about getting a spare Z-Stick

Indeed, i guess different people will depend on it in different ways. It's a shame the stella-zs don't have any manual controls like the danfoss equivelent... again then if the system fails for an extended period you still have control without having to break out the old TRVs (Something to think about as i'm planning to get 10 or so stella-zs soonish)

[jay (support)]

every time I include/exclude one device I Do it twice

I'm curious - how exactly do you do this? Do you do an include on the backup first then the one in use? I ask because this should not be possible. Each stick creates it's own network. When you include a device into a network you should not be able to include it into another (devices can only be on one network at a time) - so the include should fail. If it succeeds then it's likely because the device excluded itself from the first network when it joined the second. In which case if the first was the back then if you ever tried to switch to the back no devices would respond because they no longer belong to that network.

What about including a Z-Stick in another Z-Stick's network? Can that work? i.e. one Z-Stick would be primary and the other secondary.

I had a look at Homeseer's Z-Tool and, while it seems possible (in theory - I only have one Z-Stick so can't try it) to get a controller to send its devices to another stick (and optionally make that stick primary) it doesn't seem possible to unilaterally command a Z-Stick to be primary.

So I would guess that even if I could get all the devices on a Z-Stick onto another one that was secondary if the primary failed there would be no way to force the secondary stick to become primary.

Or am I missing something?

[matt (support)]

So I would guess that even if I could get all the devices on a Z-Stick onto another one that was secondary if the primary failed there would be no way to force the secondary stick to become primary.

Yeah, I think that is the problem. I have transferred to/from the Z-Stick and a handheld controller before, but I don't know of any way to force a secondary to become the primary if the previous primary fails. To my knowledge that isn't possible.

!! I never tried the back up stick, I always made the assumption that all association went ahead successfully, I always focussed on the main z-stick, it is easy to check if the device has been acquired by the stick, once in Indigo it shows easily. You are now making me think that my assumptions were not correct in this case I should have the backup stick "empty". Tomorrow I will try it and report, I now have 72 devices, some positioned close to the roof, it would be very "bad" for me if I made such a wrong assumption.

What about including a Z-Stick in another Z-Stick's network? Can that work? i.e. one Z-Stick would be primary and the other secondary.

I had a look at Homeseer's Z-Tool and, while it seems possible (in theory - I only have one Z-Stick so can't try it) to get a controller to send its devices to another stick (and optionally make that stick primary) it doesn't seem possible to unilaterally command a Z-Stick to be primary.

So I would guess that even if I could get all the devices on a Z-Stick onto another one that was secondary if the primary failed there would be no way to force the secondary stick to become primary.

Or am I missing something?

In case I should discover I have no backup, I have two Z-sticks, I could test this approach. I am away for home but dying to see if I am "with no redundancy", in that case, I have done useless work and I am in the same sit as robdobson.

!!! I eat back what I wrote, my second Z-stick has only got 3 old devices in it. The three devices that are in the backup Z-stick are not in the other (are spare), therefore your statement is correct and I was wrong assuming to have a backup. This makes me scared to death that if the z-stick goes down, I am without safety-net.

Any suggestion? even expensive, but workable? The Z-toos from Homeseer is not an option as I downloaded and does not show Aeon Labs Z-stick as one of the options.

Thanks,

Frankie

[matt (support)]

The only way I know to backup a controller would be to use a Z-Troller (aka EZController).

I have heard from Norm (MacHomeStore.com) that their return rate on Z-Sticks thus far has been less than 1% (and a returned unit is not necessarily really defective), which you might want to factor into how important/critical this is as issue.

Hi Frankie

The Homeseer Z-Tool will talk to the Z-Stick but it doesn't allow data to be backed up or restored. (And nor does it have the capability to force a Z-Stick to be primary if it is currently a secondary.)

I asked the question about backup/restore of Z-Stick directly to Aeon (i.e. whether backup/restore might be a feature that is coming) and their response was:

"Thank you for your inquiry. At the moment, the current Z-Stick cannot be backed up or restored. I am unsure when we will add the capability. If i find any information pertaining to adding this function, I will let you know."

Rob