Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

Posted on
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:49 pm
mclass offline
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Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

I have recently acquired a few Black Cat ZWBCL2 dual in-wall relay modules.

Black Cat's documentation (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nchat61cp2gigae/ZWBCL2-Full%20Instal%20Guide%20V1-2.05.pdf?dl=0] suggests that these are rebranded Philio PAN04 or 06 devices, which is listed as an Indigo supported device.

With default parameter settings, these switches create three devices - Relay 1, 2 and 3. Relays 1 & 2 are hardware switches, whilst Relay 3 can be set to operate both relays (I think!).

By altering the parameters I have removed "Endpoint 3" (Relay 3) and have managed to gain independent control of the hardware Relays 1 & 2.

Indigo reports the device details as follows:

Indigo Z-Wave Version: 2.0.103
Node ID: 33
Model: Relay Power Switch
Model ID: 00010013
Manufacturer: Philio
Manufacturer ID: 013C
Protocol Version: 3.95
Application Version: 1.08
Model Definition Version: 0
Library Type: 3
Class Name: Relay Power Switch
Class Hierarchy: 04 : 10 : 01
Command Class Base: 25
Command Versions: 20v1 85v1 86v1 59v1 5Av1 5Ev1 60v3 25v1 27v1 2Bv1 2Cv1 70v1 71v1 72v1 73v1 75v1 7Av1
Encryption Status: Not Supported
Multi-Endpoint Types: 1:(10 : 01), 2:(10 : 01)
Multi-Endpoint Classes: 1:[25 20], 2:[25 20]
Multi-Instance Counts: - none -
Features: routing, beaming
Neighbors: 8, 28, 36
Associations: 1:[1] 2:[] 3:[]
Config Values: - none -



Whilst operation of the relays is ok, I am finding that the device status reporting, when presented on a control page is weird:

Relay 1 (R1) presents as normal - ie when R1 is on the status is on as displayed on the control page, and when off the status is displayed as off.
BUT!
When Relay 2 is turned on, the status of BOTH R1 AND R2 is displayed as on - even though R1 is not actually turned on. Similarly, when R2 is turned off, the status of both R2 and R1 is displayed as off - even though R1 has not physically changed status! :roll:

A typical extract from the Indigo log when R2 is turned on is:
Code: Select all
 Z-Wave                          sent "Relay2" on
   Z-Wave                          received "Relay1" status update is on


A similar (but different) situation was discussed regarding a similar Philio device some time ago in another forum (http://forums.indigodomo.com/viewtopic.php?f=152&t=16323&hilit=Philio+PAN04).

Despite attempting every permutation and combination of accessible device parameters, I have not been able to rectify this. I suspect it has something to do with the weird and wonderful world of ZWave command classes, and was hoping that someone with some knowledge of this area might lend a hand - or if it needs to be added as an Indigo-supported device.

If you have a clue and need further assistance, let me know!

mclass

Posted on
Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:44 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

Yes, this looks like it can use the same device definition as the Philio PAN04. We'll get it added to the next bug fix release (7.1.2). Note you will need to reset the module back to the factory defaults so that it uses endpoint 3 again, as Indigo's device definition needs it to work correctly.

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Posted on
Mon May 28, 2018 6:50 pm
mclass offline
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Re: Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

We'll get it added to the next bug fix release (7.1.2)


Acknowledging that you never (rarely?) give timing of Indigo updates, should I hold on to these modules or look for an already supported module? :lol:

Alternatively, is there a "Dummy's Guide" to preparing "payloads" to send as raw ZWave commands using Indigo?

Posted on
Tue May 29, 2018 11:19 am
jay (support) offline
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Re: Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

Up to you - we will get those fixes in but we just don't yet know when. And vacation season here in the US is kicking off and that's going to slow things down somewhat.

There isn't a dummy's guide because, frankly, Z-Wave's low-level serial protocol doesn't lend itself particularly well to that sort of thing. If it were a "good" API it might be possible. But, alas, it's not.

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Posted on
Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:56 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

Indigo 7.2.0 is now available for download and has the new Black Cat Double Relay Module (ZWBCL2) definition.

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Posted on
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:19 pm
mclass offline
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Re: Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

Thanks for including support for this device.

However, I am struggling to get each of the individual relays to operate independently (including the S! and S2 inputs) and to properly report status of each relay. I have attempted to "adjust" various configuration parameters without success.

Here's the device details reported on first sync of a reset device:

Code: Select all
11 Oct 2018, 2:06:08 pm
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - started for "075 - Relay Power Switch"
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - retrieved module neighbors list: 1, 9, 11, 12, 13, 18, 19, 29, 59, 70
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - assigning return route to "075 - Relay Power Switch"
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - assigned return route
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - retrieved manufacture and model names: Philio - 013C, Double Relay Module (ZWBCL2) - 00010013
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - retrieved protocol version 3.95, app version 1.08
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - retrieved class hierarchy: Routing Slave : Relay Switch : Relay Power Switch (04 : 10 : 01, base 25)
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - retrieved command classes: 20v1 85v1 86v1 59v1 5Av1 5Ev1 60v3 25v1 27v1 2Bv1 2Cv1 70v1 71v1 72v1 73v1 75v1 7Av1
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - retrieved encrypt commands: - none -
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - retrieved capabilities: routing, beaming
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - retrieved multi-endpoint types: 1:(10 : 01), 2:(10 : 01), 3:(10 : 01)
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - retrieved multi-endpoint classes: 1:[25 20], 2:[25 20], 3:[25 20]
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - retrieved group 1 associations: []
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - retrieved group 2 associations: []
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - retrieved group 3 associations: []
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - added group 1 association to interface
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - added group 2 association to interface
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - added group 3 association to interface
   SQL Logger                      creating table device_history_350682050 for "075 - Both Relays"
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - created device "075 - Both Relays"
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - created device "075 - Relay 1"
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - created device "075 - Relay 2"
   Z-Wave                          Syncing - complete
   SQL Logger                      creating table device_history_105987921 for "075 - Relay 1"
   SQL Logger                      creating table device_history_1927204020 for "075 - Relay 2"
   Z-Wave                          sent "075 - Both Relays" status request
   Z-Wave                          sent "075 - Relay 1" status request
   Z-Wave                          sent "075 - Relay 2" status request



The "official" Black Cat documentation for the device can be found here:
https://www.blackcatcontrolsystems.com. ... load_id=15

Any help/suggestions welcome!

TIA

mclass

Posted on
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:13 am
matt (support) offline
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Re: Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

That is one of the most cryptic developer Z-Wave documentation PDFs I've read. :shock:

What happens on the module (relay states) when you turn on/off the 3 devices in Indigo individually?

What happens when you use S1/S2 on the module to control the relays in regards to the Indigo device states (copy/paste Event Log results)? Turn on Indigo's Z-Wave debug logging via the Interfaces->Z-Wave->Configure... menu item so we can see at a lower level what the module is sending.

And what are you current settings for configuration parameter #1 and #6? Try changing both of those then re-run the tests above and report any differences you see. Based on the docs I think param #1 should be 3 (the default) and #6 should be 1 (the default), but maybe not.

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Posted on
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:51 pm
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Re: Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

Nah, that manual is perfectly clear.

Strange implementation certainly, but perfectly clear.

I don’t have such a device included in Indigo, but Matt assuming the three devices are endpoints 1,2,3 you’ve got complications there.

(Don’t use endpoint 0 and don’t use any single channel commands; always send multichannel and you’ll be ok)

I reckon it’s down to how you present the device in Indigo - two devices would be better than three.


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Posted on
Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:04 pm
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Re: Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

To clarify.

Ignore parameter 1; it doesn’t matter what it’s set to.

Leave parameter 6 as default (1).

Present TWO devices in indigo, being Endpoints 2 and 3. Do not expose or interact with Endpoint 1.

Send a multichannel Basic_Set/Get to endpoint 2 for switch 1, and endpoint 3 for switch 2.

Watch for multichannel reports 0x00 or 0xFF from Endpoints 2/3 and reflect them in Indigo.

Simples. (*)

(*only UK folk will get that reference)


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Posted on
Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:17 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

That is pretty much what Indigo is already doing though, and it doesn't sound like it works. Indigo is using the same definition for this one as the PAN04 (which I believe does work):

Code: Select all
   'subs': [
      {
         'name': 'Both Relays',
         'type': 'zwRelayType'
      },
      {
         'name': 'Relay 1',
         'type': 'zwRelayType',
         'endpoint': 2
      },
      {
         'name': 'Relay 2',
         'type': 'zwRelayType',
         'endpoint': 3
      }
   ],

So one device for catching and send that should target both relays (presuming param 1 is default), and then endpoint 2 and 3 devices to control the relays individually (again incoming and outgoing commands).

Image

Posted on
Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:56 am
howartp offline
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Re: Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

But the first device is not useful for reporting as the report that’s sent back is OR. You can use it to Turn on one or both switches depending on Param 1, but why bother when you can turn on both relays separately or as an action?

0/0 = 0
0/1 = 1
1/0 = 1
1/1 = 1

How can you present/update the relay states based on that Boolean response?

Peter


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Posted on
Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:31 am
CliveS offline
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Re: Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

howartp wrote:

Simples. (*)

(*only UK folk will get that reference)



mclass should also get the reference too, Aleksandr and Sergei were on the TV when I was in Perth WA in January so I expect Melbourne gets the same ads (and very bad TV ) :(

For anyone else that does not understand https://www.comparethemarket.com/meerkat/meet-the-meerkats/

CliveS

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Posted on
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:18 am
matt (support) offline
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Re: Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

howartp wrote:
But the first device is not useful for reporting as the report that’s sent back is OR. You can use it to Turn on one or both switches depending on Param 1, but why bother when you can turn on both relays separately or as an action?

It is less useful to represent that state (because as you point out it is the logical OR of two states) but still might be useful in some cases – say one is using a single icon on a Control Page to represent the combined state for that module. It is more useful for controlling both loads for two reasons: sending a single command to turn on/off is faster (and thus bandwidth) and the result will be both lights turning on/off at the exact same time. If one, for example, wants to flash both loads ON-OFF-ON-OFF the effect would be very different controlling both loads together versus sequentially.

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Posted on
Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:00 pm
mclass offline
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Re: Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

Thanks for your responses - I missed them as for some reason they didn’t come up in my Tapatalk as I travelled this week :-(

It appears that perhaps this is not so simples (yes I got it!!), and the solution may be to use these as single relays (as I am already doing) and stick with the Fibaro doubles that I have successfully used in the past.

However, to assist the debate, I’ll do so more tests and send the data when I get back home early this coming week

Thanks again for your collective interest!

mclass


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Posted on
Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:53 pm
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Re: Black Cat (by Philio) Dual In-Wall Relay Status Issue

Hmm... maybe not so simples!! :lol:

I have prepared a Numbers spreadsheet detailing tests with various combinations of parameters 1 and 6 (including the defaults). The forum doesn't seem to accept this format. so you can access the spreadsheet here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/et79c9pgpbtoezm/Black%20Cat%20Dual%20Relay%20Test%20Results.numbers?dl=0

or a pdf version here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nd2m02a8zxi1ho8/Black%20Cat%20Dual%20Relay%20Test%20Results.pdf?dl=0

There are so many permutations and combinations possible that I don't have the time (or inclination) to test further, unless a specific combination might assist.

Trust that this may shed some light on these little devils :twisted:

mclass

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