INSTEON Thermostats

Did the extension cord test too. Didn't work. I will swap it out. Thanks for your help.

Hi folks,

I'm just getting started with home automation... My current "starter" setup consists of a 2413U and 3 ApplianceLinc modules to control 3 whole-house fans installed in the attic. So far, I'm really happy with this setup and with Indigo. It's been rock-solid.

Now I'm looking to replace my standard thermostat with one that can tie into my new INSTEON network. To my mind, the most logical choice is the 2441TH. One question I have though is related to the 2441TH's support for "up to 2 remote sensors". Does Indigo have any way to get the temperature readings from these remote sensors via the 2441TH?

My real goal here is to be able to sense the temperature in the house, outside the house, and in the attic, and use that info to automate the operation of the fans (and log temp data along the way). So if the 2441TH can't do this, I may hold off on the thermostat upgrade and just get some Oregon Scientific temp sensors and the RFXCOM receiver. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Matt

I thought I share my experience with the Trane Thermostat --- July 4, 2013 -- did not find a TRANE discussion to post it.

1. For zwave USB stick, make sure that you have installed the siliconlabs USB driver.

2. Thermostat setup is pretty straightforward, essentially the default setting is fine, may be you want to set the Heat-Cool minimum difference “H/C Delta” from 3 degrees to a bit higher. Also a good idea is to set the max heat set point “Max Heat SP” lower from 80 to eg 75 -and the Min Cool SetPoint bit higher. With this setting the system does not cool below 70 and does not heat above 75 F.
Both are done in the “hidden” setup (press left key twice, then press and hold the 2 middle buttons for 3 seconds, then follow menu ( Hidden Installer settings → No 4)

3. The registration with the zwave USB stick is straightforward too:
-remove USB stick from MAC,
- press button,
-on Trane select join zwave network (item #4 in the menu) – You can check if it worked in menu item No 5- Thermostat Info.
- on USB press button,
-put USB stick back into MAC

4. In indigo add zwave device and pick the new thermostat. If you add to many devices before
synchronizing with the mac, you might not know which one is which device.

5. One area to be aware of is the status of heat/cool/fan status. There are several systems working in sequence and they have their own intelligence build in and don’t just pass stats through, but delay some changes and messages:
-Compressor/Heater & Fan <-> System controller <-> Trane Thermost <-> Indigo

a. Example (A) state: AC off, Fan off .. sequence of events:

i. MAC sends new temperature cool set-point that is lower than the current

ii. Trane accepts command and send signal to compressor and fan controller immediately.
They react pretty much immediately.

iii. Trane sends new status to MAC: FAN ON, AC ON

iv. Its takes about 1 second for indigo to get this set. A trigger on FAN ON or AC ON fires immediately, but the status is not updated when your actions check the status. Adding 2 seconds delay before your actions start solves that.

b. Example (B) state: FAN on, AC on.. sequence of events:
i. Trane reaches temperature target

ii. Sends FAN off and AC off to system --> compressor and FAN

iii. The system controller leaves the FAN (in my case) on for about 2 minutes to use the “cold” energy stored in the heat exchanger (and likely also if Heat is on, but I will only check this in 6 months from now.. July in Dallas ). If you want to change that setting you have to ask your AC support person to change the Honeywell system controller (in my case). But that setting actually makes sense.

iv. Trane send message to indigo: FAN off, but AC state still stays on- I believe this is a side effect of the system that tries to protect the system from cycling too frequently. The setting to impact that time is in the Trane “hidden menu” item No 6 “Min Off” time. The default is 5 Minutes.
⇒indgo BELIEVES THAT AC IS RUNNING 5 MINUTES LONGER THAN IT ACTUALLY IS and 2 MINUTES LESS FOR THE FAN

v. I would call this state: delayACoff mode:
- indigo status: AC on, Fan off …. that state actually does not make sense
- Actual status: AC is off, fan is still on.
I use this state to determine AC has gone to off state for counting measuring run-times.

vi. After about 2 minutes the FAN switches off (setting in the system controller , not the Trane)

vii. After 5 minutes (this can be set in the TRANE hidden setup No 6) TRANE send message “AC off” to indigo.

viii. indigo needs about 1 second before all status is set properly.
An AC ON/OFF event triggers faster than the device states get changed (add a delay of ~ 2 seconds before your actions start, by then the device status is updated)


After understanding the sequence all actions work fine and eg times of what is on/off etc works fine

Karl
ps machomestore was very helpful. One of the tranes was dead on arrival, I got that replaced within hours.

I'm using the venstar thermostat with the insteon module, I'm hoping that this is in the right place

So we have company coming this weekend and one of the family members is always adjusting our thermostat. We do have a company housemode as well. My hope is that I could automatically set back and thermostat settings that are physically adjusted when the company mode is in effect, but allow indigo touch to control the setpoints. Looking at the event log, it appears that there is a "sent" insteon signal on adjusting with indigo touch.

Below the first adjustment is made manually while the thermostat is in auto mode. The second is from Indigo touch.

Received INSTEON "Thermostat" cool set point changed to 71.0
Received INSTEON "Thermostat" heat set point changed to 66.0
Received INSTEON "Thermostat" heat set point changed to 66.0

Sent INSTEON "Thermostat" set cool set point to 72.0
Sent INSTEON "Thermostat" set heat set point to 67.0
Received INSTEON "Thermostat" cool set point changed to 72.0
Received INSTEON "Thermostat" cool set point changed to 72.0
Received INSTEON "Thermostat" heat set point changed to 67.0

Hoping there is a way to disseminate the two types of adjustments to use them as triggers.

[matt (support)]

Hmm.... I'm not sure of a great solution for this one.

In the case of Indigo Touch (or any Indigo action) changing the setpoint your Device State Changed triggers (for setpoint) will fire when the command is sent. They won't fire when the thermostat a second or two later broadcasts back the new setpoint because at that point Indigo already has changed its internal setpoint values. Therefore, if anytime you executed a change (set, increase or decrease) setpoint action in Indigo you could also execute the Disable Trigger action with the trigger target being the Device State Change triggers for that setpoint (then use the automatic re-enable Trigger action checkbox to have the triggers re-activated about 5 seconds later). The result will be that when the Indigo action executes the corresponding Device State Changed triggers for that setpoint will be skipped, and then when the thermostat broadcasts out the new setpoints the triggers will also be skipped because the value isn't really changing. But if the setpoint is later changed at the device itself, the triggers will execute which can then reset the setpoints back.

The gotcha is this technique might work for Indigo actions that change setpoints, but not if you are using the Indigo Touch thermostat UI to change the setpoints. In that case your action to disable the triggers won't be there, so it won't work. However, if you are using a graphical Control page to change the setpoints then you could add on to the click actions for the controls the disable Trigger Actions and maybe make it work.

There might be some other technique that could work as well, but I'm drawing a blank.

Hey folks.

Just got the Insteon thermostat up and running tonight, and everything so far seem cool.... literally!

One thing I'm noticing is that the AC seems to cycle more than before.. Perhaps I'm just paying more attention to it, but what I was hoping for was a way to set a variable in the schedule so that once the desired temp is reached, it actually continues to run for like another 10 minutes... This would cool the house down below the set point just a bit, and hopefully would keep the AC from cycling so much. Since all the Indigo command seem related to the temperature, I don't see how to set a particular time for this to happy.

FYI I have NOT programmed the thermostat aside from the schedule in Indigo.

I could add a new Action to the Schedule to a new set point .5º cooler, and delay it by a few minutes, but does that mean the lower set point only goes into affect after the warmer set point has been reached?

OK, so.. Yeah.

running for like 2-3 minutes at a time....

the system won't last long like this..

Any suggestions?

Have you calibrated the Thermostat yet? All three of mine were off by a considerable amount when I first installed them. Directions for calibrating are in the manual. I had the same rapid-cycling problem before calibration but not since.

Terry

Hey Terry

Thanks for the heads up on Calibration...Finally figured out you had to be in the MODE mode to get to the calibrate mode.

I'll keep you posted on the results

Thanks SO MUCH for this tip!

And if this doesn't fix the problem, I'm going to try to set a Condition that the 72º program not run until the Zone 1 temp is greater than 73º. <Edit> Which I'm now realizing won't fix the problem...>

Cheers

Now that I have a central humidifier, I'm interested in logging and plotting the humidity over time, as seen by the T1800.
In the thermostat's device page, I have "Read (poll) device state" set to 5 minutes and checked. The UI seems to have the updated information, but I'm not seeing it in the log - am I missing something? Is that being suppressed?

I saw another thread that mentioned suppressing thermostat log info because it was noisy - http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/userforum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10012&p=71948 - I hope that's not it, because that's exactly the data I'm looking for!

(Server is running 5.1.10; waiting on some laptop-shuffling and reinstallation before I install the Indigo 6 upgrade I bought)

[matt (support)]

Indigo doesn't show the polling in the log. You can use the SQL Logger plugin to store all of the thermostat states (temp, humidity, setpoints) into a database. Or you could create a Device State Changed trigger for whenever a particular state changes (humidity). The action of that trigger could be to execute a python script to log or store the humidity:

Code: Select all

dev = indigo.devices[323159530] # get ID by right-clicking on device
indigo.server.log("humidity is now " + str(dev.humidities[0]))


Okay, that's good to know, but sort of surprising, to my mental model of an event log. I don't suppose there's a log-of-everything-no-really option I can turn on somewhere? Are there other things I should be aware of not hitting the log?

[matt (support)]

Our Event Log tries to balance logging important information while still being human readable. We have on our feature request list several log improvements, including more verbose logging with filters.

Howdy

Well just made my first Indigo purchase today, along with the pro software, USB unit and a plug outlet for our new tankless hot water heater recirculation pump I also purchased a thermostat for our ac/gas unit but we live in Arizona and we also have a cooler that is used before the humidity and dew points get too high and we have to switch to the AC. The cooler is used March - June then again in Sept - Oct.

If you are not familiar with a cooler it is a unit that hold water and pumps water of various different types of pads that allow the air to be drawn through the wet pad adding moisture along with lowering the temperature of the air. Under ideal conditions the cooler can drop the air temp but up to 30 degrees. Additionally the cooler can be use without the water to just move air in the house.

The current very basic thermostat has a three way switch, off, vent (no water), cooler and the basic mercury lever for setting temp on and off.

Do you know is there a thermostat specific for a cooler that could be used with indigo?

If not could I use a basic indigo thermostat using the AC for the "Fan with water" and the "Heater" for the "Fan without water"?

Thanks in advance for your time in answering my question.

Nick

I think the question is more "how so you select which of the many options is best for your needs."

One approach that comes to mind is to integrate a humidity sensor into the mix - either a separate sensor, or as an input in a thermostat. Then you could have Indigo automatically select between Heat, Cool & A/C. As to the thermostats themselves, again you have a wide choice. For the cooler you might want to do it yourself with a couple of appliance links, one for the fan, another for the pump. As thermostats go, I personally would go with an IP thermostat - there are a lot around now. But, lately it seems Insteon stats have gotten more reliable, so the biggest problem will be to find one that can control your system, and for which there is Indigo support.