INSTEON Thermostats

Posted on
Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:09 pm
jay (support) offline
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INSTEON Thermostats


Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:16 pm
yosappy offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

Where can I find how to EXACTLY SET-UP the RESPONDER LINKS & CONTROLLER LINKS for both Wired & Wireless INSTEON Thermostats?

When I do the normal DEFINE & SYNC for an INSTEON DEVICE, for a Wireless TStat, I first press the SET BUTTON on the TStat so Indigo can communicate with it. Then it goes through its routine; but, at the end it tries to send 4 requests & they all FAIL because the Wireless TStats are BROADCAST ONLY devices, to save on their battery power. Then, when I check the RESPONDER LINKS & CONTROLLER LINKS, there is only 1 RESPONDER LINK that tells the Hard-Wired TStat that this Wireless one is controlling, to go to "Sets Mode to Auto Heat 67 / Cool 78" on broadcast of button/group 1. So, my questions are:

1. How can Indigo communicate with any Wireless TStat if it is sleeping, most of the time? Remember that SmartHome says their program CAN DO IT.
2. How can Indigo CHANGE THE OFFSET TEMPERATURE SETTING or PROGRAMMING for any TStat? You can do this manually via the PROGRAM & TIME / SENSOR BUTTONS.
3. How can Indigo CHANGE THE MASTER ON / OFF CONTROL for any TStat? You can also do this manually via the MASTER BUTTON.
4. What is the meaning / use for each RESPONDER LINK & CONTROLLER LINK for each BUTTON / GROUP #1, 2, 3 & 4?
5. What is the meaning / use for each RECEIVED INSTEON STATUS for each BUTTON / GROUP #1, 2, 3 & 4; i.e., Button 1 (OFF) = HEAT OFF, button 2 (ON) = COOLING ON, etc.?

Thank You!

Yo

Posted on
Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:56 am
matt (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

yosappy wrote:
Where can I find how to EXACTLY SET-UP the RESPONDER LINKS & CONTROLLER LINKS for both Wired & Wireless INSTEON Thermostats?

Indigo automatically adds the controller links from the thermostat to the PowerLinc when you define/sync it. Having the thermostat be a responder to a scene command is a bit less useful -- I believe it just recalls the setpoints and mode (which can be set via direct commands from Indigo instead) and for the wireless thermostat that won't work because it will be asleep (unless it is hardwired to an AC adapter, then it might work).

yosappy wrote:
When I do the normal DEFINE & SYNC for an INSTEON DEVICE, for a Wireless TStat, I first press the SET BUTTON on the TStat so Indigo can communicate with it. Then it goes through its routine; but, at the end it tries to send 4 requests & they all FAIL because the Wireless TStats are BROADCAST ONLY devices, to save on their battery power. Then, when I check the RESPONDER LINKS & CONTROLLER LINKS, there is only 1 RESPONDER LINK that tells the Hard-Wired TStat that this Wireless one is controlling, to go to "Sets Mode to Auto Heat 67 / Cool 78" on broadcast of button/group 1.

The status requests at the very end when the device dialog is closed are probably failing (an Event Log snippet from you would tell us for sure if that is the problem) -- those don't appear to work with the wireless thermostat at all when it is operated via battery (but might work when operated via an AC adapter). There is nothing we can do about this (the fact the thermostat doesn't respond to those commands when in battery mode).

Indigo automatically writes controller links into the thermostat during the sync for groups 1 through 3 (and the next beta will write group 4 as well). Those don't show up in the INSTEON Link editor dialog because they aren't editable by the user -- Indigo always forces them to exist. Your other link (auto heat 67 / cool 78) was written into the thermostat at some point, either via manually linking or some other process -- I'm not sure how it got there (it could even be left over from factory QA). If you don't want it, then you should delete it and/or factory reset the thermostat and re-sync it.

yosappy wrote:
1. How can Indigo communicate with any Wireless TStat if it is sleeping, most of the time? Remember that SmartHome says their program CAN DO IT.

The thermostat must be awake for Indigo to communicate with it. If Smarthome's program does it then it must be waiting for the module to be awake and broadcast, then it sends commands to the module before it goes back to sleep. Indigo does not support that capability. Additionally, note under the troubleshooting section of the 2441ZTH manual it says:

Problem: Computer software or other controller can’t retrieve the Wireless Thermostat’s data (Temperature, Humidity, Setpoints).

Cause: When using only batteries, the Wireless Thermostat will go to sleep and not responded to signals from other INSTEON devices.

Problem: Add an AC adapter and the unit will stay on and awake all the time.

yosappy wrote:
2. How can Indigo CHANGE THE OFFSET TEMPERATURE SETTING or PROGRAMMING for any TStat? You can do this manually via the PROGRAM & TIME / SENSOR BUTTONS.

Indigo does not support remotely programming either of those features.
yosappy wrote:
3. How can Indigo CHANGE THE MASTER ON / OFF CONTROL for any TStat? You can also do this manually via the MASTER BUTTON.

We have emailed Smarthome about how to enable/disable the Master mode but have not heard an answer back yet. It is not documented in any of the technical documentation we have.
yosappy wrote:
4. What is the meaning / use for each RESPONDER LINK & CONTROLLER LINK for each BUTTON / GROUP #1, 2, 3 & 4?

Group 1 - Cooling change (ON or OFF)
Group 2 - Heating change (ON or OFF)
Group 3 - Dehumidification change (ON or OFF), high humidity setpoint
Group 4 - Humidification change (ON or OFF), low humidity setpoint

Indigo does not currently automatically create the link for group 4, but we'll add that to the next beta of Indigo 6.

yosappy wrote:
5. What is the meaning / use for each RECEIVED INSTEON STATUS for each BUTTON / GROUP #1, 2, 3 & 4; i.e., Button 1 (OFF) = HEAT OFF, button 2 (ON) = COOLING ON, etc.?

I don't understand the question (or how this question is different than #4).

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Posted on
Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:34 am
yosappy offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

Matt,

Thank You for your answers. I'm almost there. My understanding now is that when I Sync either a Wireless or a Wired TStat, Indigo automatically puts in the 1 through 3 Group Links you mention, with the 4th coming in an updated release. You say that "Your other link (auto heat 67 / cool 78) was written into the thermostat at some point, either via manually linking or some other process -- I'm not sure how it got there (it could even be left over from factory QA). If you don't want it, then you should delete it and/or factory reset the thermostat and re-sync it."

OK, that explains why I did not see the other 3 Links in there and why this Link was in there, which I did not put in there. I am still concerned, however, about deleting it.

6. Are there not any Links put in there when the Wireless TStat is first Paired-up, or Synchronized, with the Wired TStat, as its Remote Temperature Sensor? Is this the "manually linking" that you mention? Remember that this manual Pairing was done even before I Link-up each TStat within Indigo because my HVAC Installer did this when he first installed all of these TStats. (Reference Page 13 of 26 "Adding a INSTEON Wireless Thermostat" in the TStat Manual.) If not, how, or where, is that Address Link made for the 2 Paired TStats? If so, IS THAT LINK THE ONE THAT IS PUT IN THERE BY PAIRING and, thus, I SHOULD NOT DELETE IT? I think it is from that Pairing because IT ONLY IS IN THERE FOR THE PAIRED WIRED & WIRELESS TSTATS. It is not in there for the 3 Wired TStats I have that are not Paired with a Wireless TStat. Also, that Link has the Paired Wireless TStat as a Controller in the Wired TStat and the Paired Wired TStat as a Responder in the Wireless TStat. That is why I am leery about deleting them because I think INSTEON / SmartHome puts them in there when a Wired TStat is Paired, or "synchronized," as the Manual calls it, with a Wireless TStat. Your thoughts, please? Also, if I do have to leave these Links in there, should I change them to be the CORRECT TEMPERATURE LIMITS, as they are all currently incorrect? Also, FYI, they both are "broadcast of button/group number 1" and "sets mode to auto heat/cool." Should I leave these alone, or change them? There are 7 modes that are selectable in there.

My original Question #5 still stands:

5. What is the meaning / use for each RECEIVED INSTEON STATUS for each BUTTON / GROUP #1, 2, 3 & 4; i.e., Button 1 (OFF) = HEAT OFF, button 2 (ON) = COOLING ON, etc.?

Here is a copy of a Log from this morning:

Mar 18, 2013 8:09:24 AM
Received INSTEON "Thermostat Office Bill Attic Hard-Wired #1" on (button 1)
Received INSTEON "Thermostat Office Bill Wireless #1 (64 / 72)" temperature changed to 72.5
Received INSTEON "Thermostat Office Bill Wireless #1 (64 / 72)" humidity changed to 42.0

Mar 18, 2013 8:14:08 AM
Received INSTEON "Thermostat Play Room & Bedroom #2 Guest Wireless #5 (78 / 68)" humidity changed to 45.0

Mar 18, 2013 8:14:25 AM
Received INSTEON "Thermostat Office Bill Attic Hard-Wired #1" temperature changed to 77.0
Received INSTEON "Thermostat Office Bill Attic Hard-Wired #1" temperature changed to 77.0
Received INSTEON "Thermostat Office Bill Attic Hard-Wired #1" humidity changed to 44.0

Mar 18, 2013 8:16:53 AM
Received INSTEON "Thermostat Family Room Hard-Wired #6 (78 / 72)" off (button 2)

So, my "5A" question is specifically about this status: "Received INSTEON "Thermostat Office Bill Attic Hard-Wired #1" on (button 1)"

Are "(button 1)" and your "Group 1 - Cooling change (ON or OFF)" the SAME THING? Thus, "on (button 1)" IN ENGLISH, MEANS the Air Conditioner was TURNED ON?

Similarly, my "5B" question is specifically about this status: "Received INSTEON "Thermostat Family Room Hard-Wired #6 (78 / 72)" off (button 2)"

Are "(button 2)" and your "Group 2 - Heating change (ON or OFF)" the SAME THING? Thus, "off (button 2)" IN ENGLISH, MEANS the Heater was TURNED OFF?

If so, I think it would be MUCH BETTER AND CLEARER if Indigo put out the ENGLISH WORDS in the Status Log, instead of the buttons, which have to always be deciphered & remembered, for their actual meaning. Better yet, put out both so all is understood, right there.

Your insight about hard-wiring the power for the Wireless TStats is a good one. I do have all 5 of those AC Adapters, I just have not installed them yet, until I can get all of these issues understood first. Hopefully, that will solve the Wireless TStat "sleep" problem.

Keep up the GREAT WORK!

Thank You.

Yo

Posted on
Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:28 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

yosappy wrote:
OK, that explains why I did not see the other 3 Links in there and why this Link was in there, which I did not put in there. I am still concerned, however, about deleting it.

You are correct, in that if this is a link between the wired and wireless thermostat then I would leave it. It probably is there to pair them together. I don't know that I would recommend altering the temperature values either, because I don't know how the thermostats use that link exactly (nor is it documented anywhere).

yosappy wrote:
Are "(button 1)" and your "Group 1 - Cooling change (ON or OFF)" the SAME THING? Thus, "on (button 1)" IN ENGLISH, MEANS the Air Conditioner was TURNED ON?

Yes, they are the same thing. All links have a number associated with them by the controller. For KeypadLincs it corresponds to the button. For other modules, it corresponds to something else (in this case which equipment state is turned ON or OFF). Buttons = Groups = Scenes in link terminology.


yosappy wrote:
Are "(button 2)" and your "Group 2 - Heating change (ON or OFF)" the SAME THING? Thus, "off (button 2)" IN ENGLISH, MEANS the Heater was TURNED OFF?

Yes.

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Posted on
Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:26 pm
peter offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

My Insteon thermostat Model #2441TH linked perfectly with Indigo when I installed the thermostat. I have Indigo Version 5.1.8. Now, Indigo fails to establish a link with the device when I try to re-sync. How do I get Indigo to sync the thermostat again?

Posted on
Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:50 am
peter offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

Here is the error message: "Error Linking - device failed to send engine version information"

Posted on
Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:15 am
matt (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

Hi Peter,

peter wrote:
Here is the error message: "Error Linking - device failed to send engine version information"

This is the wired 2441TH thermostat and not the wireless 2441ZTH, correct? If it were the latter then you would have to make sure it is awake so it can hear and respond to the commands.

I'd try factory resetting the thermostat (per its manual) to see if that helps. If it doesn't, then it sounds like a signal problem has crept in. To troubleshoot that try moving your dual-band modules (AccessPoint RFs, dual-band LampLincs, etc.) around to different outlets. That will change the signal path and might help. Another option for troubleshooting is to plug the PowerLinc into different circuits using an extension cord. If none of that works, then the 2441TH might have malfunctioned.

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Posted on
Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:30 am
peter offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

Thanks Jay. It's the wired thermostat. I've already opened the unit to remove the power and shut it, but that didn't work. I'll try the factory reset. If that doesn't work, I'll change out the thermostat.

Posted on
Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:31 am
peter offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

I'm sorry...thanks Matt!!

Posted on
Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:32 am
peter offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

FYI...I've got dual-band SwitchLincs everywhere. There's a dual-band SwitchLinc about a foot away from the thermostat.

Posted on
Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:52 am
matt (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

Is it failing to respond to all commands (status request, change mode, change setpoints, etc.), or is it just the define/sync failing?

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Posted on
Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:02 am
peter offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

All commands. I tried to change temperature, fan mode, etc. in Indigo, but no response. I've now deleted the device in Indigo and will do a factory reset and let you know how that works. Thanks!

Posted on
Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:07 am
peter offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

I did the factory reset. Still can't find the device.

Posted on
Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:00 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

I'd try the extension cord test, but it sounds like you might need to get it swapped out...

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