Kohler Whole House Generator

I am looking at purchasing a whole house generator and I am leaning towards getting a Kohler. From what I can tell, I can purchase OnCue from them which will let me monitor my generator from a windows PC and it can also send SMS and emails. I am thinking of having it send an email to Indigo so I know if I am running on the generator and if I am, run the bare min.
Does anybody have any experience with OnCue or has anybody linked their generator to Indigo using some other method or generator?
Thanks
Larry

I don't have a Kohler system but I do monitor three standby generator systems for our house and my friends and family's houses. I built the monitoring systems before I got INSTEON and Indigo. I added relays to monitor generator running, utility power and panel power. The relay outputs interface to a small computers (NSLU2) running PERL on Linux. I could have interfaced them much easier to an EZIO6 and Indigo.

There are some postings about my systems at:
http://www.installationexperiences.com/ ... ation.html
http://www.installationexperiences.com/ ... ition.html

If you go with Kohler, please let us know how it works out. I am familiar with Generac and Briggs and Stratton. I prefer Briggs and Stratton over Generac. Briggs and Stratton has a remote monitoring system but the last time I checked, it could not send emails.

Not a Kohler discussion, but some comments worth considering in this earlier thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5505&start=0&hilit=generator

Caveat: I do not know the particular system you are looking at.
Assumptions: You will have an automatic cut-over switch. Your Mac in on a UPS

It would probably be best to monitor the transfer switch rather than just monitoring generator operation. On short outages or tests the generator might power up, and then off again before power actually transferred. It looks like Kohler makes an External Alarm Module which might get you what I think you are looking for (Notification of switchover/restoration of power).

Ideally you would tie one of the alarm outputs (an unused set of contacts) to something that would let Indigo know the generator had kicked-in. You might be able to use an I/O-Linc. In theory, when the power came on from the generator, the I/O-Linc would start-up and see the contact closure, etc. Or, probably a better way to go, you could use a simple digital input board (I like the ones from Phidgets) and tie the alarm contacts to that. Phidgets support both AppleScript and Python on the Mac, so it would be easy to get the signal to Indigo.

It would probably be best to monitor the transfer switch rather than just monitoring generator operation. On short outages or tests the generator might power up, and then off again before power actually transferred. It looks like Kohler makes an External Alarm Module which might get you what I think you are looking for (Notification of switchover/restoration of power).

Agree with monitoring the transfer switch. I have set up a cheap access point I had on hand on the utility side only. That is when the transfer switch is on Generator the access point is not powered and therefore unreachable. I ping the access point every five minutes from indigo and increment a variable to record utility up time. If the access point is unreachable I set the utility up time to zero. I use the utility up time to delay turning on certain circuits until the utility power is up and stable for at least 30 minutes. This works even if the Mac running indigo is not on UPS.

To access the circuits I have hooked up a relay to a and IP enabled contact closure device. See link mentioned previously eme jota ce

...To access the circuits I have hooked up a relay to a and IP enabled contact closure device...

I did not see any information on the IP enabled contact closure in the post pointed to by eme jota ce. Do you have more information about that device... it sounds quite interesting.

I have a briggs and stratton 20Kw propane generator. Their 200A transfer switch includes two independent relay outputs, one which opens any time you're on generator, and another which opens when near-maximum load is detected. That allows you, if you like, to still let the AC run if there's enough power available.

I haven't got around to monitoring those outputs yet. I thought of using an EZIO but I think that will be a problem because it will be losing/regaining AC power right at the instant when it needs to transmit state changes. Same goes for the Indigo PLM. So instead I will wire them to an always-on input, perhaps my Elk alarm panel.

Yes they do have a remote display device but it doesn't look all that useful to me. I'd much rather get the status into the computer.

I did not see any information on the IP enabled contact closure in the post pointed to by eme jota ce. Do you have more information about that device... it sounds quite interesting.

I used this http://estores.merchantpartners.com/fcwxj/product_info.php?products_id=1

I just installed a Kohler 20RESA Genset with the OnCue Automatic Transfer Switch (ATS) which comes with an ethernet port at my house.

It also came with some crazy Windoze software which I won't really use.

I'm planning to attempt to see what goes in/out of the ethernet and build an Indigo plugin.

If anyone has any good starting point from protocol or a Kohler standpoint, let me know.

here we go.... tcpdump here I come.....

No experience with Kohler, but most commercial/industrial systems I've worked with use modbus tcp over Ethernet. If so, there are python libraries for modbus so a plugin shouldn't be too far fetched. It's also possible there's some http interface you can pillage to do your bidding - I'd probably start with an nmap scan of the entire port range to see what's open and listening.

I guess it's worth mentioning to first make sure that the RJ45 is actually Ethernet and not some weird proprietary connection for other Kohler thingies...

Edit: I asked one of my electricians and he mentioned that Kohler has their own proprietary version of modbus called "Kbus". Apparently the docs are available if you ask Kohler nicely, maybe by going through whoever sold the unit to you. Also available are "converters" that change the kbus protocol into the more standard modbus.

Hope this helps,
Terry

Terry- - Thanks for the info - - that's what I'm finding out.

I asked real nice for the documentation and Kohler sent me to the distributor. They said they could not get it.

They CAN get the Modbus info for the industrial Kohler line - - so I said I'd take what I can. It is really ethernet - -but I have a Mac tool called "ModbusProbe" and It's not working.

So - Yeah, Kbus is the deal. Weird.

Any updates on this? Sounds like I have the same genset as Brian. Would love to get the OnCue system info into Indigo.

This thread is a bit old, but I thought I would post here anyway, for anyone else who might use this idea.

I recently installed a 26KW generator. Related to a problem suggested sometime back in this thread of HVAC compressor problems when returning to utility from generator power. The ATS switches back to Utility with little to no frequency synchronization, this can cause scroll compressors to run backwards or not at all on HVAC units. I experienced this while testing a new HVAC system. Load management kills the power for a set number of minutes after generator power is stabilized, however going the other way, there appears to be only a compressor saver option that activates 45 seconds after return to utility. Not willing to allow my three HVAC units to have the above issues I started searching for a way to monitor utility power and use the automation to turn off the thermostats. This is how I plan to do it:

Using an Insteon micro switch with the yellow trigger wire terminated to the hot side, when power goes out and the generator runs, I don’t have to do anything. When utility comes back, the micro switch is powered, senses power on the yellow lead and turns on the switch. That fires a trigger to turn off all of the thermostats before the switch back to utility, so when the switch to utility happens the HVAC units are off. 5 minutes later, a delayed action turns off the micro switch and another trigger returns the thermostats to normal.

If anyone comes up with a simpler method, please comment.

Radjin~~

If anyone comes up with a simpler method, please comment.

I've never sat down to understand the various wires for HVAC, but it sounds like you're on top of it.

I've been thinking about overcoming a somewhat related issue with our system...

We've got two Trane TCONT624 thermostats which I like very much. The only issue we have with them is caused by power outages. After a power event/generator switch over, the thermostats behave properly with the exception that they sometimes get their Z-Wave radios in a bad state and Indigo loses the ability to talk to them. The only way I've found to overcome this is to pull the thermostats from the wall for a bit.

I've been trying to come up with a suitable way to keep the tstats powered during the 10 or so seconds between mains loss and generator power. Essentially, a 24v battery backup or something. However, it gets a little more complicated with the possibility that a call for HVAC comes in at that precise time. I'm not sure what would happen if the tstats call for HVAC and the units are unable to comply. So maybe similar to your solution, is to keep the tstats powered while simultaneously turning them to "off" until the HVAC units can answer a call.

I use the Emerson Sense thermostats, six of them in fact, WiFi. I have a PSP SAK-60 load management module on each air handler. Upon a power outage, the SAK-60 modules return in the off state under generator power, keeping the HVAC units powered down for a set time, then reenergized one minute apart. However when the utility power returns, the ATS units will attempt a rough sync then transfer power back to utility, the SAK-60 modules don’t get shut down so do not start the off timer. There’s almost always a voltage, frequency mismatch that most devices can absorb. Scroll compressors not so well. It probably would be better if the break-before-make in the ATS would have a longer open time.

I, many times, had issues with z-wave and power cycles. Perhaps a longer off time between transitions might help. If you bought a small UPS and plugged in a 24v transformer to the c-wire for your thermostats, that might keep them alive and better protected from any power quality issues. My trick wouldn’t work for you if your thermostats stop communicating. If you do keep your thermostats powered, and one called for heat/cool, it simply sends voltage to an input and your HVAC unit should enter that mode as soon as it is powered up and goes through its purge/delay or whatever they call it on your system.

Edit: After installing and testing my Insteon micro switch it occurred to me that any wireless device would likely fail as the signal probably could not get through the metal enclosure, not to mention, in my case, two brick and three sheetrock insulated walls. Insteon uses two forms of communication, the primary through the house wiring, which works for me at 600’ away, and a wireless backup with a range of about 100’, open space. Just something to consider if you use a device to monitor utility power to protect equipment.