iRed2 users, UNITE!

Posted on
Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:26 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Forgot to mention, iRed is supposed to also work with the Global Caché devices - which may be less expensive depending on what you need. Check with the iRed guys first though.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:34 pm
Mark offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Yep, that's Remote Central where I've gotten most of my discrete codes and the knowledge to use them. Rough going, though, because, as you point out, this stuff is not "amateur" friendly.

I've gotten hex codes from there, the iRed 1 interface and the IRTrans Windows software. I combined all those into the single IRTrans text doc I mentioned previosly, then use the IRTrans software to load that into the IRTrans units' database.

Posted on
Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:04 am
dstrickler offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

jay wrote:
For those that are trying to teach codes via hex values, this site may help.


Oooooo... Codes! That site will help my learning code a lot. Thanks!

Dave

Posted on
Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:09 am
dstrickler offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Mark wrote:
But I like where you're heading, if I can prod you along! :)

Mark,
Consider me officially prodded. Time to order up an IRTrans.

Any recommendations on a model for me to buy? The WiFi seems overkill and yet a good future-proof feature in case I move it to a different location. Come to think of it, I may do that this summer...

What about buying one with the included database? Sounds like you have that one, but have never found out how to access it...

If I'm going to put some time into this project, I don't want to save a few bucks, but end up wishing I had spent the money and gotten xyz feature...

Dave

Posted on
Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:59 am
tinbert offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Here some details on iRed and IRTrans:
- iRed2 2.1 now supports the IR database of the IRTrans modules, at least it allows one set of codes, i.e. one "Device" in iRed's terms, being uploaded. So you can access the codes through URL or whatever.
- iRed2 can import rem files used by the IRTrans (on Windows)
- iRed2 can directly convert Pronto codes, one-by-one, e.g. those from remotecentral
- configuration of all IRTrans LAN modules is done by webbrowser, so no need for Windows. However, the WiFi model needs Windows to setup the basic network configuration. I have currently no plans to implement a special tool for this on the Mac.
- configuration of USB modules is only possible on Windows, though it's barely necessary.

Details on all these topics can be found in the manual.

If you have more questions ... support is only a mail away. I'm not reading this forum on a regular basis, so please excuse me not being very present here. Please note that I'm only the programmer of iRed and I'm not affiliated with the IRTrans GmbH.

Cheers,

Robert

tin:b Software - maker of iRed*

Posted on
Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:54 am
hwitten offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Hi,
Re Robert's comment of support only an email away..... absolutely true.

I now run 4 IRTrans Ethernet modules. All wired, some used power supply, some POE.

I use iRed2 directly on my desktop, while at my desk. At other times: iRed2's or Indigo's Apps and/or Indigo web page on iPhone/iPad.

I primarily use IRTrans to control the main functions of TV's, AMP's, etc. I.e. switch power on/off, Volume, channel, input on the AMP between cable, ATV, etc. Of course Applescript comes into the mix as the tie-in to Indigo.
I'm certainly nowheres near end of capabilities possible, I'm simply limiting usage to what I need :)

My A/V setup is very open so I make use of IRTrans external transmitters placed so as not to interfere with regular remote usage. That was a requirement to keep peace :)

iRed2 allows for commands to be distributed to IR Transmitters as needed, I.e. internal, external and even individual.

I also use an IRTans/Indigo combo to control room A/C units. I use that in combination with a SyncroLink to give me feedback re on/off. Feedback is displayed along with temps, etc. on a 30" display in our family room that also serves as a video monitor for 8 network cams.

I run iRed2 on my desktop and also on the Mini that does Indigo. I found it much easier if all where on one computer so as not to get tangled up in Apples changes re security between Macs when Applescript comes into play. The one on my Desktop run TV in my Office, which uses cablebox etc in adjoining FamRoom. The one on the Indigo Mini has what it needs to control via Applescript. I can connect to either with iphone, etc.

Overall, I'm very pleased with IRTrans/iRed2 for the IR side of my Indigo setup. Support has been good from both when needed, which has not been very often. Granted, there was a time I was doubtful re iRed2 ever fully happening, but that doubt has been gone for some time. I can't quite recall when I got my first iRed/IRTrans combo, but it was back in iRed1 days.

No WiFi in my IRTrans setup, only Ethernet, so no Windows box was ever needed.

Posted on
Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:11 pm
Mark offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

dstrickler wrote:

Any recommendations on a model for me to buy? The WiFi seems overkill and yet a good future-proof feature in case I move it to a different location. Come to think of it, I may do that this summer...

What about buying one with the included database? Sounds like you have that one, but have never found out how to access it...


I may not be 100% up to speed on the latest IRTrans offerings, but from my experience I'd recommend the IRT-LAN-MAC or the IRT-POE-MAC (I use IRT-LAN-MAC). That's ethernet with the database and iRed (price is the same with or without iRed).

You'll also need a power supply for the IRT-LAN-MAC (I believe "POE" means "Power Over Ethernet", which requires a special POE switch, but I don't know that for sure). You can buy a power supply with the 'trans, but I didn't. I found supplies here less expensive. If your setup does include POE, that would be sweet as it would mean one less power supply, but they are quite a bit more expensive.

You also might need the transmitters that hwitten refers to. They plug into the 'trans if you need to have the emitter in a different spot than the unit. But for my setup I didn't need that. In fact, the iRTrans built-in emitters are so powerful that I'm still amazed at the coverage. They flood the entire room they are in.

And I did buy mine with, and use, the databases. The database is the "recipient" of the codes file that I've been referring to and is mandatory for my "iRed-less" system. I'm just not familiar with Jay's notion that you can buy a 'trans with a database that is preloaded with some set of codes (like a universal remote). Even if that were true, I'd still need to program it with my own codes, because universal remote databases don't generally include discrete codes*, which I rely on heavily.

I steer far away from wifi whenever possible. I wire everything. At least in my house I've found vast improvements in reliability, speed and signal quality when I hardwire. My system couldn't even play an MP3 without stuttering until I hardwired. Now that I'm pumping video, I'm glad I did. And since that put wired ethernet at every AV setup location, might as well just hardwire the 'trans. There's no modern AV setup that doesn't require the internet, might as well get a wire to it and add a switch (TVs, Bluerays, receivers, PS3, servers, AppleTVs, and on and on, they all want internet. WiFi all of those?!? Good luck...)

It was great to hear from tinbert about iRed 2's progress:
- he is correctly referring to "rem files." That's the doc with all the codes I've been referring to. Nice to hear about iRed's support of those.
- He mentions iRed 2's support for converting Pronto codes. That is what I was using iRed 1 for, and now it seems he's got that working in '2, so that's great. You'll need some way to do that if you grab codes from the Remote Central site.
- And yes, you configure the 'trans using a web browser. Lot's of options and pref's to tweak. But I haven't discovered a way to load the rem file into the database using that, hence my need for the iRTrans software on Windows.
- If, in fact, iRed 2 can now do that, that would be awesome. But I'd have caution about the way tinbert worded that. He says "at least it allows one set of codes." If that's the case, that wouldn't work for me, as I have multiple set's of codes (devices) in my rem file (one for each of two TVs, two receivers, cable box, Mac Mini remote, etc). As I recall, the iRTrans Windows software doesn't support more than one rem file at a time, so all the device codes have to be in one file, but you can have all the devices you want in that one file (limited only by the size of the iRTrans' memory).

If iRed 2 can upload a rem file, that would be sweet. But if iRed 2 can only upload one of its devices to the database, that would be less useful (at least for me). Maybe tinbert can weigh in on that, and add that capability to iRed someday if it currently cannot do that.

Again, I'm very happy to hear that tinbert is continuing development with iRed 2, and according to hwitten it's now more stable and useful than when I stopped using it.

That being said, from a purely workflow point of view, I'd tend to use iRed 2 for Pronto code and perhaps rem file manipulation, but still try to eliminate it from day-to-day use. There's certainly nothing inherently wrong with running it along side Indigo, if in fact it is now stable and able to handle multiple iRTrans devices, but for me, less components to program and run is the way to go. I have such a massive collection of AppleScript now (it's in the hundreds of scripts) that managing another set of them in a program outside of Indigo is not for me.

Wow, I do go on, don't I... but let me add: my experience with email support from tinbert and iRTrans has also been very positive, second and third only to Indigo's! If only Adobe would answer (or even look at) some of my support-related issues the way that these fine companies do!!

* For the uninitiated: "discrete" codes are ones that your devices' remotes don't have built in. For example: most remotes have one power button that toggles. Press once for on, again for off. Using that IR code in a HA system is not reliable, as there's no simple way to ascertain the current state of the device. Did Indigo power on the TV, or did you press its power button? You need a code for "power on" and separate one for "power off." Those are discrete codes (and you have to claw your way around the internet to find 'em). Another common need: a lot of devices make you cycle through video inputs (HDMI 1, HDMI 2, Component 1, etc) using one button or an on-screen menu system. If you want to press one button to turn on your PS3, TV and receiver, and have all three set to the proper inputs, etc., you're going to need a ticket to the "discrete code" fun ride. Warning: it's quite scary while you're standing in line trying to get in, and equally harrowing inside, but totally worth it when it's over. :D

Posted on
Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:33 pm
hamw offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Based on my experience:

IRed is quite stable, and has only lost the IRTrans once. It recovered itself overnight, but not without a bunch of fiddling. Can't explain whether it was the IRTrans or IRed's issue -- I think it was actually the IRTrans as its "static" IP address had somehow changed, but when corrected IRed did not immediately re-establish communication. Regardless I had confidence that had the IRTrans been zapped all my hard work in setting up the codes etc would have been preserved in my IRed file. Much better than my IRLinc, and I believe the EZUIRT. I second the comments re support from Marcus at IRTrans and Robert.

Because of the WiFi issues Mark states I also chose to go ethernet. Very happy with that decision, and definitely agree that everything possible should be wired.

Re the IRDB, it was my understanding that at the time of my purchase the IRDB was not compatible with a Mac, and so I didn't get that. Not sure I miss it or need it, as the applescript seems to do everything. I think it can be added, so if anyone has any ideas how that would improve things, please post.

IRed may be an additional charge over IRTrans. Be sure to check first.

Overall the IRTrans/IRed combo will be more expensive than the IRLInc or EZUIRT, but in terms of ease of setup and peace of mind for your hard work, it's no comparison.

Posted on
Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:10 pm
Mark offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Ah, thank you for reminding me to point out a serious deficiency in my method. I use the "iRed-less" setup with my IRTrans only to transmit IR signals. I have to use an IRLinc to receive IR signals from my remotes, as there is nothing on my HA server that is "listening" for IRTrans messages. And as I have mentioned, and hamw seems to agree, the IRLinc is somewhat flakey. It requires manual setup that is lost if the unit dies. I'm currently waiting for the arrival of my third IRLinc replacement, which I'll need to reprogram (again) with over a hundred codes. Needless to say this is a real drag, and is absolutely the weakest link in my HA setup.

I believe the IRTrans/iRed setup negates the need for the IRLinc, so that should be considered when deciding how best to utilize iRed and an IRTrans.

What I'd like to see is an Indigo plugin that 1) can upload rem files to the IRTrans, and 2) can send and receive hex code to and from multiple IRTrans (#2 being the more important functionality). And that, in essence, is what iRed apparently is now able to do. Back when I first designed my system, iRed could not reliably perform what I needed, so I came up with the "iRed-less" scheme.

But if all you need to do is send IR, I would still stand by my recommendation to use URLs and the IRTrans database over running iRed always-on. Again: the less components in your system (hardware or software), the less you'll be repairing them. And while some may disagree, if pressed, most would have to admit that running an HA system means spending time fixing it...

Posted on
Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:44 am
tinbert offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Mark wrote:
It was great to hear from tinbert about iRed 2's progress:
- he is correctly referring to "rem files." That's the doc with all the codes I've been referring to. Nice to hear about iRed's support of those.
- He mentions iRed 2's support for converting Pronto codes. That is what I was using iRed 1 for, and now it seems he's got that working in '2, so that's great. You'll need some way to do that if you grab codes from the Remote Central site.

This was part of iRed2 from day one, however it is a little bit more hidden, i.e. Pronto Code conversion no longer has a separate panel. To add Pronto codes, open the Action Editor, create an empty IR code, go to the Advanced section of the editor and paste in the Pronto code. Then press RETURN and iRed converts the code into the internal (IRTrans) format, if possible.

Mark wrote:
- And yes, you configure the 'trans using a web browser. Lot's of options and pref's to tweak. But I haven't discovered a way to load the rem file into the database using that, hence my need for the iRTrans software on Windows.
- If, in fact, iRed 2 can now do that, that would be awesome. But I'd have caution about the way tinbert worded that. He says "at least it allows one set of codes." If that's the case, that wouldn't work for me, as I have multiple set's of codes (devices) in my rem file (one for each of two TVs, two receivers, cable box, Mac Mini remote, etc). As I recall, the iRTrans Windows software doesn't support more than one rem file at a time, so all the device codes have to be in one file, but you can have all the devices you want in that one file (limited only by the size of the iRTrans' memory).

If iRed 2 can upload a rem file, that would be sweet. But if iRed 2 can only upload one of its devices to the database, that would be less useful (at least for me). Maybe tinbert can weigh in on that, and add that capability to iRed someday if it currently cannot do that.

The IR database can only be filled with data, you can not add to the database. Currently (!) you can only select one "Device" in iRed und upload it .That's a limitation which is only temporary. You can, however, copy over codes from several devices into one "Device" list and upload it then. Or you can fill your rem file with codes from several devices, import that into iRed and then upload it to the DB.
As soon as I find more time to enhance iRed2 I will add support for uploading multiple devices. It's mainly a matter of adding a user interface to select multiple devices. In the meantime I'm working on iRedTouch for iPad ;-)

Best,
Robert

tin:b Software - maker of iRed*

Posted on
Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:08 am
dstrickler offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Mark wrote:
Ah, thank you for reminding me to point out a serious deficiency in my method. I use the "iRed-less" setup with my IRTrans only to transmit IR signals. I have to use an IRLinc to receive IR signals from my remotes, as there is nothing on my HA server that is "listening" for IRTrans messages.


Uh oh... IRTrans only transmits IR signals?? I need a solution that receives as well...

My goal, and I know it's a strange one, but will keep my wife happy, is to keep the IR remotes for the lights I have, but replace the light switches (that listen for the IR remote) with Insteon switches. Then get an "XYZ" module that would receive the IR signal from the existing remotes for the lights, translate that into an Insteon code, and control the new Insteon switches. This way I have Insteon switches in the entire house, but the few rooms that use these IR remotes can still use them as they always have. My quest now is to find the elusive "XYZ" module.

An alternative solution is to keep the IR light switches (not replace them with Insteon) and use an IRTrans to control the lights in the room, but seems like a hack I will regret later, as 90% of my house is now controlled by Insteon, and IR isn't a bi-directional protocol.

Am I missing something here? Is there a better solution I haven't even considered?

Dave

Posted on
Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:18 am
hamw offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

IRTrans/IRed is bidirectional. You teach it IR codes that it can either send back out or execute trigger actions from. I already had an IRLinc set up, which is why I am still using that for now.

Posted on
Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:28 am
Mark offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

ds-

I believe hamw is right, an iRTrans with iRed can both send and receive IR. I was saying, because I don't use iRed, my iRTrans can only send. I'd need to run iRed to receive, as there is nothing on my HA server that is listening for IR. That would be iRed's job, or that of the plugin I was trying to coerce you or Matt to create! :)

If you just need to receive IR to get Insteon switches to act like your old IR switches, you might consider IRLincs, as that would be considerably cheaper per room. And if they were only handling a few codes, then their setup would not be too bad. And they come with little remotes that can control scenes and bright and dim, etc. that you could use to wean your wife off the old IR remotes.

But perhaps a better solution would be to buy some RemoteLincs after you install the Insteon switches to replace the wife-friendly IR remotes. There are kits that include everything you'd need that might end up keeping her happy, costing less in total, and rid your setup of the non-Insteon-compatible IR stuff. You might not need IRTrans or iRed at all...

If the old IR remotes could brighten and dim, I think you'll have trouble recreating that with an iRed/IRTrans setup. Even if you can, I doubt it would work as smoothly as RemoteLincs would. They're pretty slick, and can control up to six Insteon devices individually, or any number using scenes. And I can't imagine an IR remote that would be simpler to operate than a RemoteLinc, they're pretty "wife-friendly."

I definitely would not use an IRTrans to keep the existing IR switches working. You won't get feedback to Indigo if the lights are on or off. Only Insteon switches will do that.

Posted on
Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:54 pm
dstrickler offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

hamw wrote:
IRTrans/IRed is bidirectional. You teach it IR codes that it can either send back out or execute trigger actions from. I already had an IRLinc set up, which is why I am still using that for now.


Whew - that's good news!

As for the IR not being bi-directional, yup, and I realize the ramifications. If the IRTrans can learn the codes for my existing (simple) remotes for the lights, then I can have a trigger deal with sending Insteon signals. I am leaning back again to the IRTrans. It seems to be the robust product out there, and being a software engineer (aka Tinkerer), I think that's the way to go as it gives me flexibility. I only think I will need one or two, so the cost isn't so bad.

I've also been looking at the IRLinc Receiver (http://www.machomestore.com/catalog/pro ... cts_id=146) but it looks as if it can only do Scenes, and Dim/Brighten codes. I realize it's a different remote, but it's a solid Plan B for the lights. The problem is it has limited uses.

Also, the RemoteLincs are in a form factor I just don't like. Color me "picky", but they look v1.0 - somewhat "X10" ish...

Dave

Posted on
Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:18 pm
Mark offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

One last thing to consider, and this is a bit out of my league. Robert would know more about this.

Not all IR devices are compatible with each other. Kind'a like DVDs and their players. You'll notice on the IRTrans site they sell a special flavor for a certain type of IR signal. Are your IR lights "normal" or something exotic?

I've never run into this with the IR signals used by Apple and Sony or my Motorola cable box, and this is most likely an obscure issue. But it is something to consider before you plunk down $500 for a couple of IRTrans that will not be easy to return (you're not buying 'em at Best Buy, after all)!

And yes, the RemoteLincs are hideous monsters, but I was thinking about the user friendly aspect, not the design...

The IRLinc remotes are credit card sized and very unobtrusive.

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