iRed2 users, UNITE!

Posted on
Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:55 pm
Mark offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Did you all get your iRed issues straightened out?

Just wanted to post an update to mine in case you haven't...

Some years ago I had to abandon iRed and I developed a way for Indigo to fire IR signals through an ethernet IRTrans without using iRed. I've never looked back.

At the time, I had to use a Windows PC for one step of the initial programming process, but I'm happy to report that I was able to pull all this off today using just my Mac!

To be fair: since part of the programming process requires Window's software, I did have to use VMWare Fusion running XP, but that worked today where last time it didn't. I suspect it has something to do with the updated version of Fusion or the Intel processors I now have that I didn't before.

And also to be fair: I did use iRed 1's built in tools to translate some discrete Pronto codes into the codes that iRTrans uses. You don't need iRed to learn codes from a remote, the iRTrans and its own software can do that quite nicely. And there may be a way to make the code conversions without iRed, I just use iRed because I own it and know how to, so I've never pursued another method. I snag discrete codes from the 'net for things that my Sony TVs and amps can do that aren't built in to their remotes (like switching HDMI inputs directly instead of scrolling through on-screen menus).

I find this setup much simpler, and faster, than using iRed, but the process is not for the faint of heart. Since it's too lengthy to describe here, I'll spare you all, but if someone is curious or needs the method, I'll be happy to share...

Posted on
Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:53 pm
hwitten offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Thanks to this thread I can let my head heal some.

I've been tearing my hair out for a few days now to get an Applescript working that 'used' to work.

Bottom-line is that you need to specify the module AND led when not using default module/led.

I.e. seems that all iRed2/AS gets from the remote is the IR code itself.
That's ok, now that I know but was very frustrating until coming to that conclusion.

All is well that ends well, Indigo once again turns off my office TV when I forget.

Thank you.

Posted on
Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:23 pm
lombrano offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Mark, I would be very interested in knowing how you succeeded in making indigo communicate directly with irtrans.
Please let us know something more.
Thanks

Antonio

Posted on
Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:39 pm
Mark offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Sure!

The "short" version:

Certain versions of IRTrans (the ones that usually come with iRed), connect via ethernet and come with a built-in web server and database (IRTrans refers to this as IRDB). I believe this variation of IRTrans is required for my method.

You use the included IRTrans software (Windows only, unfortunately) to teach and/or upload IR codes directly to the IRTrans. Each IR code installed into the IRTrans' database is associated with a remote name and a command name.

Once you get through the tedious chores of figuring out the proper IR codes and their formats, and getting them uploaded to the IRTrans database, the built in IRTrans web server takes over from there. It's then just a very simple AppleScript (which can be run in any number of ways from Indigo) that sends a URL directly to the IRTrans unit through the ethernet network to fire off the IR signal. The URL is also pretty simple, and contains the remote and command names of the particular IR signal you want to fire. No more Windows. No more iRed. Not even AppleScript or Indigo for that matter. Any browser (or other software) that can send a URL to the same network the IRTrans is attached to can fire IR! Although I've never tried it, I'm sure that means remotely as well.

I wrote about my original experience at length here:

http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/userforum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3981

I've been running this for years without issue. In fact, while I'm on my third IRLinc, which requires hours of programming each time it "forgets" its codes or needs to be replaced, the IRTrans has never needed to be touched or fixed, and has never just "stopped working." The one exception was a few days ago when I tried to test something using iRed, which promptly thrased my iTRans' database. Can't specifically point to iRed, but if it was not responsible for the snafu, that was one heck of a coincidence...

Additionally, I run two IRTrans units, which my method handles without any issue. Something that could not be said for iRed, at least at the time and version I stopped using it.

One thing iRed does have over my method, is that I haven't figure out how to (or the IRTrans cannot) send received IR signals back to Indigo. It may be possible, but I haven't done it. That means, if you want to control Indigo with an IR remote, and without iRed, you'll need an IRLinc or some other hardware. I curse you IRLinc!

What we really need (hint, hint) is direct support for the IRTrans built in to Indigo. That may be on Matt's list or it may not, but think of how much more useful Indigo would be with integrated IRTrans support. While Indigo does support the necessary SmartHome hardware to replicate the functionality, programming, and replacing, that P.O.C. IRLinc is horrible!

I'd be happy to coach anyone through this because I would not want them to have to go through what I did to figure it all out!

Posted on
Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:48 am
lombrano offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Very very interesting, thanks a lot.
I will play with this as soon as I've got time, and will post my experiences.

Posted on
Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:27 am
dstrickler offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Mark,

As an IRTrans newbie (I haven't made the purchase yet), does your post mean that even today you need to use a Windows program to configure the IRTrans?

I don't have a Windows machine anymore (just Macs), and the thought of having to load VMWare and XP just to program IRTRans seems like a kludge.

Note: I am a programmer, so if there's arcane commands I can use from the Mac or a Linux server, I am happy to use those.

TIA,

Dave

Posted on
Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:39 am
Mark offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

TIA,

You can use iRed with IRTrans (they come as a bundle if you order it that way), along with Indigo and AppleScript, so you'd never need Windows if you don't want to go that route. That's what most people on this forum are doing. But that setup requires that iRed be running all the time for Indigo to communicate with IRTrans. iRed can't install IR codes into the IRTrans' database for independent use (that is, the last time I used iRed it couldn't).

I had so much trouble with iRed 1 and iRed 2 (back before I stopped using them), especially with two IRTrans units in my setup, that I had to find this other approach. If I wasn't clear, you only need Windows to "train" the IRTrans. Once trained, Indigo will talk to IRTrans without further use of Windows (and without ever needing or running iRed). For me, having iRed running all the time, just to translate a command from Indigo to one for IRTrans, is more of a kludge than the "one time" use of Windows and VMWare.

By the way, the first time I tried all this I couldn't get VMWare to do the job, so I used a friend's PC laptop for a few hours to do the initial setup. After that, Indigo did all the work on its own. So again, you don't need to install VMWare to make this all happen.

OK, that being said, the IRTrans does have several communication protocols, their Windows software and iRed are just two. There is at least one other one, and (to me) it's plenty "arcane!" I could never figure it out, which is why I resorted to the "Windows" solution.

You can go to the IRTrans website and find the IRTrans owners manuals before you buy. There used to be a couple of them there, one of which explained not only the use of their Windows software, but the other protocol I'm referring to. If you can make your way through the manual, you might find another way to install the codes into the IRTrans without using Windows or iRed...

Posted on
Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:56 am
dstrickler offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Ah, OK... So sounds like if I keep iRed2 running on my Mac, which is dedicated to HA and Music, that I am OK to get up and running. I agree that having to run iRed2 is not optimal as it just adds to the plumbing.

I'll check out the other protocol from IRTrans. As long as it doesn't require WIndows, I'm sure I can figure it out.

BTW, I'm only shying away from running Windows for the setup as it means +4 hours of setup, patches, etc. for getting Windows up and running. I run a Mac just so I don't have to have these issues ;-)

Dave

Posted on
Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:25 pm
Mark offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

I just took a quick peek at the current IRTrans manual. I think the other protocol I was referring to can't upload codes to the IRTrans database. It may be just for sending codes to the IRTrans on the fly. It seems to have something to do with Linux. Again, it's mostly greek to me, but there might be something there. Maybe you could figure a way to use AppleScript to send a "Linux-type message" to the IRTrans directly, circumventing the need to use iRed OR pre-upload codes to the IRTrans built-in database with Windows. That would be cool. Keep us posted.

I hear ya about Windows, but I use Windows on VMWare for something else (business-related), so I have to jump through that hoop anyway. Might as well get some "AV fun" out of it to help justify the hassle! :)

PS. I stopped using iRed for more reasons than just having to keep it running alongside Indigo. I don't want to bad-mouth that developer, as his efforts to integrate IRTrans on Mac is admirable, and I want him to be successful. But at the time I stopped using it, iRed 2 was a real mess (which the developer actually admitted to on his website) and the development cycle for iRed was, uh, challenged, to put it kindly. Again, that was years ago, and maybe the current version of iRed is now everything the developer had originally promised, I wouldn't know...

Posted on
Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:11 pm
dstrickler offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

I found this manual online: http://www.irtrans.de/download/Docs/IRT ... ace_EN.pdf - is this what you mean my the "other" protocol? And yes, it's not exactly user-friendly ;-)
It refers to opening up a TCP/IP port and talking directly to the IRTrans device, which is very possible from Indigo via Applescript. Of course I say that having never tried it...

My guess is I could create an attachment script that would give you commands like "IRTransLearn(<mode>,<IR Timeout>,<code>,<Receiver-to-use>,<timeout>)". Clearly it would be a steep learning curve as I don't know beans about IR codes, but it would be an interesting project to take a whack at.

Also good to know about iRed2 and previous issues. I had heard that was the case as well. Since I'd rather not rely on it, it won't bother me if the code has some warts.

And as for your previous posts about Indigo not fully supporting IRTrans, I'd like it to support it too. However, I understand Matt is busy on v5, and will be relying on 3rd party developers to assist with building compatibility to modules like the IRTrans via the plug-in architecture in v5. That is to say, he is focusing on the core product, and making it easy(er) to integrate other modules into Indigo. It's not a quick solution for the consumer, but I think it's a smart way to go in the long term. There's plenty of people like me that would love to develop for the platform if it was easier to do so.

I'll keep you posted if I decide to purchase an IRTrans. I think I am 80% there at this point.

Dave

Posted on
Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:16 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

I believe that you can get an IRTrans with a built-in IR code database. Don't know anything more than that but it could remove the necessity to "train".

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:44 pm
Mark offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

ds-

No, I was referring to the IRTrans owner manual, which includes the info I used to figure out what I did, along with mentions of other protocols, including something related to Linux.

The doc you found might be an extension of that, or something else. It certainly looks more robust than the info in the manual. I'm using Indigo Applescripts to send URLs to the IRTrans, but that is simple compared to what you found. And my method requires the IRTrans database be loaded with the IR codes. The URLs just ask IRTrans to fire the stored codes, they don't have the IR codes themselves.

But I like where you're heading, if I can prod you along! :)

If you came up with an attachment that could program the IRTrans, that would be amazing!! Or be able to send the raw codes directly without preloading them in the IRTrans, that would be even better. And if it was possible to receive data from IRTrans as well, that would be HUGE. Right now the Smarthome solutions for sending and receiving IR are OK to use, but HORRIBLE to set up and maintain. If an attachment could make it viable to use just the IRTrans to do both, that would be fantastic. I'd certainly pay for something like that, and I bet a lot of others would as well...

And you're right, Matt would leave something like this to third-party. Which means: it's up to YOU!! :D
Last edited by Mark on Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Posted on
Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:48 pm
Mark offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

Jay-

There are IRTrans models with and without the database, but it my understanding that the database is empty, not preloaded with some number of known codes, like a universal remote would be.

The IRTrans I own has the database capability, but I never found any documentation describing that it was loaded with any codes...

Posted on
Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:02 pm
Mark offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

ds-

A sidebar:

I don't use the Windows software to teach individual codes to the IRTrans one at a time, rather it is a single text doc containing a very extensive set of codes that gets sent to the IRTrans all at once. That's all that really needs to be done before using the AppleScripts to send the URLs.

If you could figure out an AppleScript that does THAT, then we could all say goodbye to their Windows software! I'd be most happy to work with you on this, as I now know how to format the doc, and I have units to test on. I just don't know how to "open ports" and send data to the IRTrans database using AppleScript...

Posted on
Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:22 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: iRed2 users, UNITE!

These IR hardware makers seem to be missing a critical lesson that the universal remote industry has learned - you have to include a code db and easy config if you want to gain market share outside of the professionally installed market.

Sigh.

For those that are trying to teach codes via hex values, this site may help.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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