Can't define any devices.

Just installed 24(!) new dual-band Insteon switches in my new house and bought a new 2413U PowerLinc modem to go along with it. For the life of me I can't define a single switch. Indigo always sees the switch when I put it in discovery/sync mode but then it always fails. I have tried switching outlets, unplugging the UPS, checking phase bridging, etc. but I can't figure out the problem. Please help!! Here's a sample from the log file.

PowerLinc Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)
PowerLinc Linking - received module button pressed from 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - syncing PowerLinc links (address 22.3E.5C)
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: INSTEON plc link to controller 22.3A.2A, flags 03, group 01, data 00 00 FF
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: (not added -- probably already exists)
PowerLinc Linking - sync complete
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - PowerLinc links updated
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
Error Linking - device failed to send engine version information
Error linking failed
PowerLinc Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)
PowerLinc Linking - received module button pressed from 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - exited linking mode

and here's another one...

PowerLinc Linking - syncing PowerLinc links (address 22.3E.5C)
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: INSTEON plc link to controller 22.5B.AB, flags 03, group 01, data 00 00 FF
PowerLinc Linking - sync complete
PowerLinc Linking - PowerLinc links updated
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.5B.AB
PowerLinc Linking - received engine version 02 from 22.5B.AB
PowerLinc Linking - sending id request for device information to 22.5B.AB
PowerLinc Linking - received id request response from 22.5B.AB
PowerLinc Linking - initializing remote device "new device" (address 22.5B.AB, firmware version 41)
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: default on brightness 100%, ramp rate duration 0.5 seconds
PowerLinc Linking - initialize complete
PowerLinc Linking - syncing remote device "new device" (address 22.5B.AB, firmware version 41)
PowerLinc Linking - syncing all links
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to responder 22.4C.CD, flags EA, group 01, data 03 1C 01
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to controller 1F.62.E3, flags AA, group 01, data FE 1C 01
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to controller 22.C9.EB, flags AA, group 01, data FF 1C 01
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to controller 22.33.1F, flags AA, group 01, data FF 1C 01
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to responder 22.33.1F, flags EA, group 01, data 03 1C 01
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to controller 22.3E.5C, flags AA, group FE, data FF 1C 01
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: PowerLinc responder for group 1 (inserting new link at 0FC8)
Error resending previous command (reply mismatch)
Error failed to send command to module - checksum invalid
Error Linking - syncing failed
Error linking failed
PowerLinc Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)
PowerLinc Linking - exited linking mode

[matt (support)]

Hi Eric,

Did you have modules working before you installed the 24 new switches? If so, what happens if you try to re-sync one of those modules that did work? Does it now fail?

Based on your Event Logs it looks like there is some bad power line noise occurring. But if the problem is new to these new switches, then I wonder if one of them might be malfunctioning and spewing bad data on to the power line (or RF) which is disrupting the entire network.

Note you can "air gap" off the switches by pulling the LED pipe out (it is hard to do, an eyeglass flat head screwdriver helps). When you do this the light and all LEDs on the switch should turn off indicating it is physically removed from the electrical system. You might try doing that with all of your new switches to see if you can identify the problem module (presuming it is a bad module).

PowerLinc Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)
PowerLinc Linking - received module button pressed from 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - syncing PowerLinc links (address 22.3E.5C)
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: INSTEON plc link to controller 22.3A.2A, flags 03, group 01, data 00 00 FF
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: (not added -- probably already exists)
PowerLinc Linking - sync complete
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - PowerLinc links updated
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
Error Linking - device failed to send engine version information
Error linking failed
PowerLinc Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)
PowerLinc Linking - received module button pressed from 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - exited linking mode

First, try Matt's suggestions. But I'd like to add that I've experienced this particular situation (where the module doesn't respond to engine version requests after initial link "handshaking"). My solution has always been to press and hold the SET button on the module again while Indigo is still trying to get the engine version. It seems the module exits linking mode right after Indigo first communicates with it. As soon as the initial communication is complete the modules go exit linking and you have to hold the SET button again to put it back into linking mode. At least that's what's worked for me. Unfortunately I can't remember when I first noticed it, but I think it started with Indigo 6.

Hi Eric,

Did you have modules working before you installed the 24 new switches? If so, what happens if you try to re-sync one of those modules that did work? Does it now fail?

Based on your Event Logs it looks like there is some bad power line noise occurring. But if the problem is new to these new switches, then I wonder if one of them might be malfunctioning and spewing bad data on to the power line (or RF) which is disrupting the entire network.

Note you can "air gap" off the switches by pulling the LED pipe out (it is hard to do, an eyeglass flat head screwdriver helps). When you do this the light and all LEDs on the switch should turn off indicating it is physically removed from the electrical system. You might try doing that with all of your new switches to see if you can identify the problem module (presuming it is a bad module).

Thanks for the suggestion. Actually all of the Insteon switches are new. The switches before were your standard dimmers. There are no old Insteon devices to try. In any case, are you suggesting air gapping a switch on the house, trying to define another switch and, if it fails, air gapping another switch, etc., etc. until pairing works?

I'm trying to guess what could be causing the noise because, like I said, I removed the UPS, etc. I do have some Lutron dimmers in the bathrooms that my contractor installed. I don't believe they're smart switches but I'm not positive. I also have a ton of MR16 conversion trim kits which are recessed light fixtures that fit in standard 6" cans and, using a transformer, step down the power for a low voltage halogen light. Might those transformers be making trouble? Assuming it is one of these things or, something unidentified... what can be done. How do you clean up that noise? I just spent a ton on remodeling this house and making it smart with Insteon. I will pull my hair out if they can't actually be made to work.

PowerLinc Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)
PowerLinc Linking - received module button pressed from 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - syncing PowerLinc links (address 22.3E.5C)
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: INSTEON plc link to controller 22.3A.2A, flags 03, group 01, data 00 00 FF
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: (not added -- probably already exists)
PowerLinc Linking - sync complete
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - PowerLinc links updated
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
Error Linking - device failed to send engine version information
Error linking failed
PowerLinc Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)
PowerLinc Linking - received module button pressed from 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - exited linking mode

First, try Matt's suggestions. But I'd like to add that I've experienced this particular situation (where the module doesn't respond to engine version requests after initial link "handshaking"). My solution has always been to press and hold the SET button on the module again while Indigo is still trying to get the engine version. It seems the module exits linking mode right after Indigo first communicates with it. As soon as the initial communication is complete the modules go exit linking and you have to hold the SET button again to put it back into linking mode. At least that's what's worked for me. Unfortunately I can't remember when I first noticed it, but I think it started with Indigo 6.

Thank you. I will try this.

[matt (support)]

I was suggesting you airgap all of the switches except one, and then try to define/sync that one. If that fails, then air gap it and try another one. Repeat that a few times and try switches that are close to the PowerLinc.

If none of that works, and if you've never been able to define any modules then I think the PowerLinc is suspect. I would try that in multiple outlets using an extension cord to rule out power line noise (sounds like you've done this some already), and if that doesn't work I'd try a replacement PowerLinc. Did you get it from MacHomeStore.com? I imagine Norm would be happy to send you a replacement to try out.

And definitely try nsheldon's tip as well.

Let us know how it goes.

I was suggesting you airgap all of the switches except one, and then try to define/sync that one. If that fails, then air gap it and try another one. Repeat that a few times and try switches that are close to the PowerLinc.

If none of that works, and if you've never been able to define any modules then I think the PowerLinc is suspect. I would try that in multiple outlets using an extension cord to rule out power line noise (sounds like you've done this some already), and if that doesn't work I'd try a replacement PowerLinc. Did you get it from MacHomeStore.com? I imagine Norm would be happy to send you a replacement to try out.

And definitely try nsheldon's tip as well.

Let us know how it goes.

Thanks for the clarification. I will try that when I get back to the house tomorrow. (Actually, I'll try nsheldon's tip first given that it requires far less effort). In the meantime did any of the things I mentioned about the house ring any alarm bells for signal noise? What is my redress if dirty lines are the culprit? I'm using Indigo 5. Does that have any bearing?
Thanks so much,
E

PowerLinc Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)
PowerLinc Linking - received module button pressed from 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - syncing PowerLinc links (address 22.3E.5C)
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: INSTEON plc link to controller 22.3A.2A, flags 03, group 01, data 00 00 FF
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: (not added -- probably already exists)
PowerLinc Linking - sync complete
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - PowerLinc links updated
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - adding PowerLinc to module's database
Error Linking - device failed to send engine version information
Error linking failed
PowerLinc Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)
PowerLinc Linking - received module button pressed from 22.3A.2A
PowerLinc Linking - exited linking mode

First, try Matt's suggestions. But I'd like to add that I've experienced this particular situation (where the module doesn't respond to engine version requests after initial link "handshaking"). My solution has always been to press and hold the SET button on the module again while Indigo is still trying to get the engine version. It seems the module exits linking mode right after Indigo first communicates with it. As soon as the initial communication is complete the modules go exit linking and you have to hold the SET button again to put it back into linking mode. At least that's what's worked for me. Unfortunately I can't remember when I first noticed it, but I think it started with Indigo 6.

Thank you. I will try this.

By the way, I forgot to ask -- since these are all dimmer switches they don't have a "set" button per se. Do you mean press and hold the up button to put it into linking mode?

By the way, I forgot to ask -- since these are all dimmer switches they don't have a "set" button per se. Do you mean press and hold the up button to put it into linking mode?

Actually, if they're SmartLabs branded, they do have a set button. It's the clear plastic tab centered just under the down paddle on the SwitchLincs. Or the clear button just under the toggle switch for ToggleLincs. On the KeypadLincs, it's the clear plastic tab centered under the bottom button/s. Press and hold that button for about 3 seconds until it beeps to put the dimmer into linking mode.

[jay (support)]

Those transformers could be the problem as well. I'd try turning that/those circuits and see if you can link successfully link.

Well this is weird. I went back to the house today and tried nsheldon's approach and it didn't work. Before I took the plunge with Matt's solution I tried moving the 2413U to different outlets (again!) and trying different switches. This time it worked! But the catch is that it worked for ONE switch out of a bank of FOUR and with the 2413U right beneath all four. As an experiment I tried moving the 2413U far away and seeing if Indigo could still control the device. It can. So, basically one switch can be defined and used. I'm totally stumped.

PowerLinc Linking - syncing PowerLinc links (address 22.3E.5C)
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: INSTEON plc link to controller 22.2D.0F, flags 03, group 01, data 00 00 FF
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: (not added -- probably already exists)
PowerLinc Linking - sync complete
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 22.2D.0F
PowerLinc Linking - PowerLinc links updated
PowerLinc Linking - received engine version 02 from 22.2D.0F
PowerLinc Linking - sending id request for device information to 22.2D.0F
PowerLinc Linking - received id request response from 22.2D.0F
PowerLinc Linking - initializing remote device "new device 1" (address 22.2D.0F, firmware version 41)
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: default on brightness 100%, ramp rate duration 0.5 seconds
PowerLinc Linking - initialize complete
PowerLinc Linking - syncing remote device "new device 1" (address 22.2D.0F, firmware version 41)
PowerLinc Linking - syncing all links
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to responder 22.3E.5C, flags EA, group 00, data 03 1C 00
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to controller 22.3E.5C, flags AA, group FE, data FF 1C 01
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to responder 22.3E.5C, flags EA, group 01, data 03 1C 01
PowerLinc Linking - . . found: PowerLinc responder for group 1
PowerLinc Linking - comparing local and remote links
PowerLinc Linking - compare complete
PowerLinc Linking - device 22.2D.0F links updated
PowerLinc Linking - sync complete
PowerLinc Linking - exited linking mode
Sent INSTEON "Entryway Overheads" status request (received: 100)
Sent INSTEON "Entryway Overheads" off
Sent INSTEON "Entryway Overheads" on to 100
Sent INSTEON "Entryway Overheads" on to 43
Sent INSTEON "Entryway Overheads" on to 42
Sent INSTEON "Entryway Overheads" on to 96

[matt (support)]

Hmmm.... this one is a bit tricky. I think it is either a marginal PowerLinc (you'll have to swap it out to determine if that is the case), or you have significant power line noise coming from somewhere causing an issue.

To rule out the latter you could turn off all the breakers in your house except the circuit controlling your Mac and the SwitchLinc you are testing. If that works, then turn on groups of breakers until it stops working. If you find a group of circuits that is the culprit then you can further narrow down the problem (by turning on/off individual breakers in that group). Definitely a pain to troubleshoot, but I'm afraid there is no quick or easy way to identify problem appliances/lights/electronics in some cases.