Current Vera user just discovered Indigo

Greetings all!

After years of using Vera, I’ve gotten a little tired of the slow development and lack of real flexibility. So I’ve ordered an Aeon Labs Aeotec Z-Wave Z-Stick, Gen5 USB controller with the intent to test out Indigo and HomeSeer.

Being honest, I was mostly looking at HomeSeer until something in my Google searches brought Indigo to my attention…and considering my massive preference of Mac over PC it really made me stop and realize I was going to try this out first.

It looks like a solid support community here, so I figured I’d rattle off some of my questions and desires to see if anyone had any input or recommendations to get me started off well instead of altering my plans later as I discover things.

My VeraLite currently has 33 Z-Wave devices paired, with maybe another dozen I have yet to add. I have an older ADT Safewatch Pro 3000 alarm and I purchased the EnvisaLink interface for it and have it assigned to an IP on my network.

I have also tinkered with the MySensors Arduino project with the Vera, and I would love to be able to implement an array of cheap sensors: temp/humidity, motion, light, IR emit/receive, PWM LED light strips, etc.

Programming via PLEG and LUA in Vera was a total pain in the butt…this interface looks much easier to use. I live in Texas so the temperature variations can be extreme. In spring and fall, it is very possible to need heating overnight and mornings, yet need a little bit of A/C in the afternoon. The Vera does not do this well at all…and don’t get me started on how poorly they have done the UI7 version of Thermostats by removing the simple control of Cool_Setpoint and Heat_Setpoint.

Quick look at my devices:
• 1x Aeon Labs AEDSB09104ZWUS Aeotec Z-Wave Smart Energy Monitor
• 2x Trane TZEMT400BB3 Remote Energy Management Thermostat
• 1x Leviton SC1 Scene Controller Switch
• 14x Assorted Dimmers
• 15x Assorted On/Off switches/outlets

Future Plans:
• Insteon USB Interface
• Insteon FanLinc (2475F) so I can put separate Fan & Light controls where I do not have separate circuits to the switch and cannot replace the 14/2 with 14/3 wiring. Replace the single switch with an Insteon 2334-232 Keypad Dimmer Switch with 6-Button pad.
• Upgrade regular incandescent dimmers to LED/CFL compatible ones
• 3x GE 12730 Z-Wave Smart Fan Controls where I do have fan+light switches.

I also have a GE 45631 keypad controller that is a partial implementation of Z-wave scenes and sucks for the most part…if I could get it to reliably work just as a trigger-pad for actual scenes it would become useful to me. Same with the GE 45600 handheld remote control…useless in general but if I could use it as a reliable trigger it would be nice.

Regarding Arduino stuff, I’m hoping to get reliable wireless control points where I can do stuff like this:

• Put a magnetic sensor in cabinet doors so when they are opened it can turn on LED strip lighting inside the cabinet with light level determined by either a light-level sensor or time of day/what existing lights are on.
• Control RGB LED strips for mood lighting in certain areas. Have created some prototype MOSFET boards that will house the Arduino and radio module and run everything off the 12V supply the LED strips need.
• Cheap motion sensors and temperature/humidity sensors.
• Water Flow meters on assorted locations
• Inline water temp sensors to check hot water temps at appliances (washer, dishwasher, etc.)
• Temp Sensors in HVAC ducts to measure room-by-room feeds
• IR receiver and emitter configs so controller can send “IR Blaster” type signals to AV equipment.

The wireless part is key due to 60% of my downstairs areas not being accessible to run wiring, so Cat5 or other low-voltage options are not possible. I need to be able to place a few units in places where only power exists. I know there are some Z-Wave devices that do some of this, but at 4x to 6x the cost of assembling an Arduino and still not having as many options.

Anyway, very long introduction but I wanted to share my desires and goals in case others on here have either done some of these and have advice, or maybe inspire others to join in and work together to find a way to achieve them.

Ross

There are arduino/esp and rpi plugins that support various sensors and output channels and presence sensors for ibeacon and iPhones/androids.


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I am also a total Mac guy, though my setup is VERY different from yours, and I'm totally uninvolved in any hardware hacking/arduino stuff, but I've been on Indigo for less than 2 weeks now and I'm really loving it.

SmartThings paired with my home energy meter, but would never report anything. 15 minutes with Indigo from pairing to reporting on a custom control page!

Hello,
Welcome to Indigo. I too defected from SmartThings & Vera and love Indigo; it's been rock-solid! My system consists mainly of z-wave wall switches, motion sensors, door/window sensors, etc. - still waiting on support for the Linear Garage Door Opener. Nothing too elaborate, but works well and, when paired with the Echo, it's just an absolute pleasure to use, and my wife loves it. I too had an ADT Safewatch 3000 and ended up replacing it with a Vista 20p that I bought used with a dozen or so wireless sensors. I had the Envisalink EVL-3 working with Vera but that was a no-go with Indigo so I bought the AD2USB card and ran a new alarm wire cable to the MacMini. That exposed every alarm sensor as a device for Indigo. Had a few issues getting it up and running, but got it working with help from the plugin author. I originally yanked out the EVL-3 as part of the troubleshooting process, but then reinstalled it to provide off-site control of the alarm system until I get the reflector running. The two are humming along just fine together.

I have no experience with Arduinos, thermostats, or Insteon devices so can't comment on those.

Jim

After a few days of experimenting with both demos for HomeSeer and Indigo, I purchased Indigo.

Already have it doing things the Vera could never dream of...do wish I could get the MySensors plugin to work because I have some sensor modules I made I'd like to use there (actually had PCBs manufactured by OSH Park with sockets for the Arduino Mini Pro and the RF radio module)

Programming via PLEG and LUA in Vera was a total pain in the butt…this interface looks much easier to use. I live in Texas so the temperature variations can be extreme. In spring and fall, it is very possible to need heating overnight and mornings, yet need a little bit of A/C in the afternoon. The Vera does not do this well at all…and don’t get me started on how poorly they have done the UI7 version of Thermostats by removing the simple control of Cool_Setpoint and Heat_Setpoint.

Welcome! I use the insteon 2441th thermostats and they work well. They have a quirk or two but are predictable. I think they have basically paid for most of my setup in energy savings. They have the cool and heat set points so basically perfect for keeping temp within a range easily.

Rfxcom 433mhz device popular here for temp/humid sensors. I have several various weather sensors set up.

I have several appliancelinc plugs but find I don't use them much except to control stuff out of sight. Good luck with your system!

I was a long-term HomeSeer and Windows guy until a couple of years ago I got bored with HomeSeer's over-complicated set-up and config particularly for Z-Wave devices, their inflexibility when it came to adding support for any Z-Wave device that didn't rigorously stick to their interpretation of how Z-Wave 'should' be used (which was an alarmingly long and ever-increasing list of devices) and the downright bad attitude of the 1 guy on their staff who was dedicated to supporting and adding Z-Wave devices, which made me doubt them fixing the issues any time soon.

At the time I made the switch from HomeSeer I had a load of legacy X10 devices but wanted most of the same functionality HomeSeer had, plus good support for Z-Wave plus good extensibility and flexibility and a great community. So I bought a Mac Mini 2nd hand from eBay and learned how to use a Mac for the first time especially so that I could use Indigo, since it was the only system in town that met all those requirements (still is, actually). I ended up actually converting my entire house to Macs and Apple kit over the last couple of years having been won over to it by Indigo.

Also I recently tried out a Vera for a holiday home and was so disappointed with the astonishing lack of capability and flexibility that I've just upgraded my own Mac Mini to a newer 2nd hand model, releasing the other machine to go and run Indigo at my holiday home too (don't worry, I will be buying another license for that!).

For me, reasons to pick Indigo over HomeSeer:
* control pages, although lacking some of the capability of HomeSeer mobile app (e.g. ability for server to control the interface and speak announcements via an individual mobile client) are still remarkably flexible and a whole lot quicker and easier to set up in my experience. I had a long list of things I wanted to do with HomeSeer mobile client, a few of which I can't do on Indigo, but almost none of which I'd actually got round to on HomeSeer. On Indigo, I've actually built a 90% solution and my family love it
* support for wide range of Z wave (and insteon, X10, RFXCOM, etc.) devices with really easy config and setup
* developers are responsive, dedicated to developing great control software and (almost) nothing else - this focus is critical and different to HomeSeer - and have a great attitude
* great community - even better than HomeSeer's, which was pretty good
* really easy integration with media systems and other apps via iTunes, AppleScript etc.

Also, if you're a Mac guy then bear in mind that to get HomeSeer working and integrated with plugins and other stuff you end up right in the weeds of Windows and end up needing to own Windows and various Windows-only applications.

Like a few of you I was totally Vera going from version 1 to 2 to 3 then I found Indigo. Up until that point I was totally Z-Wave and just accepting the fact that there would always be holes and limited feedback if a switch was turned on locally. Then I learned of Insteon and slowly switched my 200 + devices. I am still selling Z-Wave stuff in another section here. What I found was insteon was by far more reliable and gave feedback even if it was across the house from my server. What I lost was simple devices like multi-sensors in particular temperature, light and humidity. Z-wave had a couple options but they were so unreliable I removed them. I need to research the pool control options as my next big project.I think my only request for Indigo at the moment is more robust error checking. An example is if there is no response from a device, that goes into a queue and is resent a few seconds later until the error is resolved. But no matter the limitations I have found Indigo is so much more versatile than Vera it is almost without words.

Odd that you have had issues with Z-Wave. I've got probably 70 devices and really don't have any trouble. Every once and a while I have to go outside to the main power panel and unplug power from the Aeon Labs energy monitor in there, but to be fair it is having to come through all the exterior walls and bounce off a single Z-wave outlet in the garage.

When I ran the Vera...I had a lot of issues, but since getting the Aeon Labs Z-stick and Indigo, it's been smooth.

I've considered an Insteon adapter to add in simply for a FanLinc and keypad in a few rooms where there is only a single switch to control the overhead. But that's down on the list a bit.

I've never had any major z-wave issues either, and all the modules I use support live status updates so indigo knows about a change as soon as it happens, even when done locally. Of course insteon isn't an option for me here so I don't know the difference but certainly so far z-wave seems more than up to the task.

Z-wave Live status updates, at least for the many devices I had installed, would only work if that particular device communicated directly with the controller. If it was a room away it had to be repeated then there was no status. I wrote in many forums including here in indigo and everyone who replied said that a device had to communicate directly. That live status is very important in my system as it may trigger any number of actions. If z-wave devices are now offering a way to update through the mesh network it is a very good thing.

As for reliability the power-line/radio combination of Insteon is what makes it work so well. I have devices across a 1/4 acre of property that work with live-status without having to place other devices in the middle. With z-wave there would always be a device that would not operate, so I would add more to fill in the blanks; putting recpicles in places I would never need them just to fill gaps. However z-wave still offers some options I can't get with Insteon so I keep my Aeon labs z-stick for those, but again I had to place it so there was direct communication to get a status.

When z-wave worked, it worked good, but it was just too many compermises when I started extending beyond direct communication with the controller.

The ability of Insteon to go anywhere there is power without a repeater is nice. I don't have the massive area to cover that you do. My house is 2700 sq ft over 2 stories and I've never had live updating problems, but I don't doubt your experiences. It's a bummer you had so much time and money into something only to turn around and sell at a loss to purchase new stuff.

What model/version is your Z-Stick? I got the Gen5 and it really works well. The only device that just will not work/pair is a Leviton VRCS1 1-scene controller...when I try to pair it the Z-Stick blinks blue like it's working then goes red. I've factory reset the Leviton and everything...just won't pair. It did pair with the Vera Lite, but never worked reliably.

[jay (support)]

I wrote in many forums including here in indigo and everyone who replied said that a device had to communicate directly. That live status is very important in my system as it may trigger any number of actions. If z-wave devices are now offering a way to update through the mesh network it is a very good thing.

Where did someone write it here on our forums - can you provide a link? I believe you're describing the problem incorrectly. It's not that Z-Wave as a protocol doesn't support immediate status. Rather, it's how some switch makers implemented them. Some (mostly older) Z-Wave devices don't do it automatically (due to patent issues with Lutron), so for those older devices you may have to poll them to get status. That may be what you were referring to - the requirement to poll devices for status changes. Z-Wave switches that don't immediately report status are a dying breed but it's true they do exist and those require polling to get updates. Not good at all for triggers, but I use them where triggering isn't necessary and I use newer switches elsewhere.

As for reliability the power-line/radio combination of Insteon is what makes it work so well. I have devices across a 1/4 acre of property that work with live-status without having to place other devices in the middle. With z-wave there would always be a device that would not operate, so I would add more to fill in the blanks; putting recpicles in places I would never need them just to fill gaps. However z-wave still offers some options I can't get with Insteon so I keep my Aeon labs z-stick for those, but again I had to place it so there was direct communication to get a status.

You are extremely lucky. Despite the dual-band nature of Insteon, it has proven to be less reliable than Z-Wave in the vast majority of cases.

Z-wave Live status updates, at least for the many devices I had installed, would only work if that particular device communicated directly with the controller. If it was a room away it had to be repeated then there was no status.

I wonder if the other confusion here, in addition to Jays reply, is battery devices?

Battery devices do not (usually) take part in the mesh - so if your switch was in a remote room that only had battery ZWave devices between it and the server then you'd experience this same problem of non-routing.


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Srkinard: I have the 5th generation z-stick.

Jay: The answers I received were on other forums before I had really gotten into Indigo. Using Vera I was virtually getting no status feedback without polling unless the device was very close. You are right in that someone replied that the real time feedback was licensed/developed by one company but their devices were much more expensive. As to the reliability I believe what you say but in the hundreds of devices I had there would be multiple daily events where one device or another would fail to respond often leaving lights/devices on all day. Someone suggested Insteon and I purchased a few. I cannot list a single event that is missed any more with the exception of Indigo being busy and missing a trigger. When that happens I usually find a way to build redundancy. As I said I I have not abandoned z-wave but it is not my main automation protocol.

Howartp: While I had some battery devices they were only for testing as they were so unreliable that they were virtually useless. In fact the Aeon labs multi-sensor can be powered by USB and I tried that setting it to be active all the time, but the information it reported was of low accuracy and still intermittent.