How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, Next?

Interesting discussion. For me it comes down to: if I like it I pay for it.
If Indigo can deliver what they now have planned I think the new model is fair.

But with this new model there will be a new playing field.
- No more waiting years for an updated iOS app.
- No more ‘To be determined’ and ‘we aren’t providing time estimates for features’ for new functionality. At the moment there is no transparency if and when new functionality will come to Indigo. For example lacking support for the Aeon Labs MultiSensor 6 has me frustrated.
- Reducing the wish list.

So if the new model comes with more transparency, I am all for it and Indigo will finally be able to play in the big league.

I do have some concerns regarding the plugin developers. I would be very disappointed if this new model is the reason that developers would leave the community and the fantastic plugins they make and maintain would be lost. So Matt and Jay, give them some love (discount?). Without the plugin developers and the fantastic community, Indigo for me would lose it’s top rating.

Greetings,
Adrian

Interesting discussion. For me it comes down to: if I like it I pay for it.
If Indigo can deliver what they now have planned I think the new model is fair.

But with this new model there will be a new playing field.
- No more waiting years for an updated iOS app.
- No more ‘To be determined’ and ‘we aren’t providing time estimates for features’ for new functionality. At the moment there is no transparency if and when new functionality will come to Indigo. For example lacking support for the Aeon Labs MultiSensor 6 has me frustrated.
- Reducing the wish list.

So if the new model comes with more transparency, I am all for it and Indigo will finally be able to play in the big league.

Agree. Although I'm sure 7 will bring features that I've been anxious to see, having an SLA on new modules added to Indigo would be more valuable.

Apparently you've been waiting six months for MultiSensor 6 support and have no commitment on when support will be added. I would find that completely unacceptable under a subscription model.

I'd be happy with the subscription model, but providing the releases are much more regular, and support for new devices is much more at the forefront.

I've been quite lucky in that I've not really had a single issue with Indigo since purchasing a year ago - but I have struggled with integrations that seem to be much more available for Vera users. Although the guys here are doing a fantastic job with third party plugins, there seems to be more available to Vera.
ImperiHome and such like can make creating control pages much easier. However many times I've tried, I just don't have the hours and hours of work it requires to design my own control pages.
Integration with IFTTT would be a huge bonus and I feel should be quite a high priority, as that would bridge the gap between most of the newest technology that doesn't currently have an Indigo Plugin.

I'd also suggest communication should be better improved with a proper roadmap that is updated on a monthly basis. So us users can actually have a clear idea of when X product will be supported.
You could even move to a voting system to get an idea of where the community wants the development to focus on.

I like the idea of plugin developers getting either a free or discounted version of Indigo to ensure they're always up to date. Or perhaps something like a lifetime cost (similar to Plex) where you pay a one off fee and get all future releases included.

Perhaps even 2 levels of subscription. A standard level, and a higher level for 'power' users that want a bit more weight on their input. Perhaps along the lines of the regular posters in here who contribute often vs those who buy Indigo and never really come back.

Only thinking out loud here!

I, as I'm sure many more here, will be watching closely. I won't repeat what has been already stated. But there are features that seem to be lacking, that for a long time user, seem to be no brainers, for a product as "mature" as Indigo!

I don't think this is a subscription model in the same sense as the other vendors in the software industry. The blog states it is an update subscription, i.e. you pay ahead for any updates for a year.

If I rented Adobe Photoshop for whatever it is (£10/month?) as soon as I stop the rental payments I would lose Photoshop. That isn't the case here, as soon as I stop paying the Indigo update payment I would still have Indigo.

If I pick another Adobe product, Lightroom, all the new major features have been a paid upgrade. You effectively pay for that new set of features and anything minor they add until the next major version. These major versions had added very little and some obvious stuff got added very late.

Of course the Indigo model would include Reflector, which was already an actual subscription service.

To be honest I was pretty stunned and disappointed when my brand new Aeon multi sensors and LED light didn't work out of the box (well, partially for the LED). These were well advertised products from a major company and it just had not occurred to me to check if Indigo would support them. I bought quite a few of them, altogether they cost a lot more than Indigo did. Even with subscription model in place, the percentage on the software is going to be pretty small.

If this model really does provide faster integration of new (and in some cases very old) products and at the very least a view as to when these products will be supported, then I would be a lot happier.

Sam.

My knee jerk reaction was "Another subscription? I'm trying to reduce those".

But I think this is a good way to go for Indigo. For those disliking it, buy version 7 (like you would have to anyway) and if your setup works, stick with it. If you don't buy new devices for your home, you probably wouldn't need to jump to version 8 when it came out anyway. You could simply do a full upgrade every few years. But think about all the things you pay for now. I would be willing to bet most people spend more on their monthly cable bill that the yearly subscription for Indigo will be. That's one bill I slashed by ditching cable. Stuck an antenna in my attic and get over 60 channels (luckily, I live between NYC and Hartford). I also slashed my cell phone cost by buying my phones and going to Cricket. There are other low cost carriers too so there are tons of ways to slash your monthly fees.

Personally, I would much rather trim my other budgets to support Indigo because look what happens when companies try to go too low cost (i.e. Wink filed for bankruptcy). If you want the more advanced features for Smartthings (camera recording for example), pay a monthly fee. Jay and Mike so a great job and with a very niche product like a Mac based home automation product, need to balance consistent revenue and the ability to keep rolling out new features to keep Indigo better than the competition.

I'm in the process of coming back to the Indigo camp now after using Vera for a few years and then SmartThings. I will tell you the grass is NOT greener.

Before slamming Indigo's price model, compare the costs to your other expenses and consider not the cost, but the value. If we didn't consider value over cost, none of us would own Macs in the first place. My co-worker, that I convinced to buy a MacBook 4 years ago just thanked me yesterday. He said his laptop is running as well as when he got it compared to the low cost Windows machines he replaced every 3 years. To be fair, he could have also bought more expensive Windows machines but he's been much happier with the OS too.

So, keep up the good work Mike and Jay. I would like to see more money coming in so you can expand the company!

Mike and Jay. I would like to see more money coming in so you can expand the company!

Don't you mean Matt and Jay? Unless they hired me to replace Matt and nobody told me


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Oops. Sorry Matt.

[jay (support)]

I do have some concerns regarding the plugin developers. I would be very disappointed if this new model is the reason that developers would leave the community and the fantastic plugins they make and maintain would be lost. So Matt and Jay, give them some love (discount?). Without the plugin developers and the fantastic community, Indigo for me would lose it’s top rating.

Yep, we definitely want to keep the developers happy since they are an integral part of our success.

I don't think this is a subscription model in the same sense as the other vendors in the software industry. The blog states it is an update subscription, i.e. you pay ahead for any updates for a year.

If I rented Adobe Photoshop for whatever it is (£10/month?) as soon as I stop the rental payments I would lose Photoshop. That isn't the case here, as soon as I stop paying the Indigo update payment I would still have Indigo.

Exactly. Given the quantity of complaints after the first day or so, it's pretty clear to us that the majority of the negative reactions came from people that didn't actually read the description of how the program works. They just assumed that it was the same model as Adobe, which it very clearly is not.

I'd also suggest communication should be better improved with a proper roadmap that is updated on a monthly basis.

We just want to set some expectations here because we've heard this a couple of times. Like all software companies, our roadmap is private. There are very few (if any) software companies that publish a roadmap to consumers - that always ends up hurting much more than helping because it limits flexibility in responding to new and changing priorities and it requires non-trivial management time (which takes away from development/qa time in a tiny company like us). SLA's for new features/functionality also doesn't exist except in the high-end enterprise software space (and even then it's generally for reacting to bugs rather than new features) - it's not something you see in the consumer software space. Both of us are veterans of the software industry on both sides (enterprise and consumer) and understand well all the implications.

Seeing a roadmap is secondary to the real problem: new device support and other new features take too long to get into the hands of customers. The new model is meant to alleviate that problem.

You could even move to a voting system to get an idea of where the community wants the development to focus on.

We already have a really good idea of what customers' priorities are - but remember that there are strategic priorities as well that are not necessarily something we communicate beforehand.

Integration with IFTTT would be a huge bonus and I feel should be quite a high priority, as that would bridge the gap between most of the newest technology that doesn't currently have an Indigo Plugin.

Unfortunately, that's not up to us since they have to build the channel.

I, as I'm sure many more here, will be watching closely. I won't repeat what has been already stated. But there are features that seem to be lacking, that for a long time user, seem to be no brainers, for a product as "mature" as Indigo!

One man's no brainer is another man's I can't believe anyone would use that feature. Perspective and context are everything when determining priorities. While we don't always get them right (i.e. not updating Indigo Touch sooner), I think we do a pretty good job overall prioritizing new features/functionality. The update subscriptions are an attempt to get these new features out to customers faster.

Holy Shit. I can't believe I wasted 15 minutes of my life reading that entire thread. It's capitalism man... this is the US of A! Get over it!

If you feel it necessary to trash Jay and Matt, do it somewhere else. This forum is filled with truly helpful and sincere people, including Matt and Jay so get over yourself.

Customers will vote with their pocket books. I plan to open mine gladly to pay for something that brings me so much comfort, security and peace of mind.

That is all. *steps down from soap box*

Easy cowboy. Last I checked this was a free country and an open forum. I don't disagree there are wonderful people in this forum and Matt and Jay are great gents, BUT the business model is not for me and I am sure for many folks here who just don't speak up. And yes I will vote with my pocket book and wish this company the best. I am also entitled to an opinion and I believe with this business model you're pushing yourself in the corner. You can only milk this cow for so long and for so much before the apples and other will catch up and pass you. You need to invest money to make money and not keep charging more so you can quickly grow your business. Never heard of investors? and backers?

So there you have it mate, I just exercised the right to my opinion, and yes this is the great US of A....

Holy Shit. I can't believe I wasted 15 minutes of my life reading that entire thread. It's capitalism man... this is the US of A! Get over it!

If you feel it necessary to trash Jay and Matt, do it somewhere else. This forum is filled with truly helpful and sincere people, including Matt and Jay so get over yourself.

Customers will vote with their pocket books. I plan to open mine gladly to pay for something that brings me so much comfort, security and peace of mind.

That is all. *steps down from soap box*

BUT the business model is not for me and I am sure for many folks here who just don't speak up. And yes I will vote with my pocket book and wish this company the best. I am also entitled to an opinion and I believe with this business model you're pushing yourself in the corner.

For the sake of discussion (mean this seriously, hopefully without further flaming), can you not operate in this new model in the same basic method that you have been with previous releases? You are not forced into the subscription, so you could (as someone pointed out) purchase a full license and just sit at that level for a long while. You would miss enhancements added between 1 year following purchase and your next full purchase -- but that isn't TOO much different than now. Those still sitting on Indigo 5 aren't getting updates either right now.

The only issue I see with that, really, is that right now when you do your major purchase you will get upgrade pricing... and in the new model if you continued in the current manner you would need to purchase full instead of an upgrade. Granted, we haven't seen the costs, but otherwise would this not be pretty darn similar to the current situation?

Not to stir this thread any more than necessary, but I would be really interested in two models.

1. Existing software distribution

2. A distribution which separates the core Indigo engine/architecture (my term) from Insteon/Zwave devices( device integration).

I find using Lutron RA2 a more robust lighting control system than Insteon. Low latency and more colors/textures for devices. Up integrating to Indigo via plugin is very important though.

The Nest/Honeywell Tstats are market leaders. Up integrating this to Indigo again via plugin is essential.

Security panels, pool/spa control, DMX lighting, window & shade control, cameras, irrigation, solar systems, geo thermal system, legacy control systems are best integrated via plugins

For all other kinds of sensors IP based is hard to beat. The new pi zero has the potential for being a low cost platform for integrating custom sensors.

The plugin architecture is amazing that allows all this custom integration.

Also wonder if porting the core Indigo engine/architecture to an open source platform would be easier if device integration is removed.
The OSX platform is not optimized for a realtime world.

My 2 cents from a US centric point of view ofcourse.

PS: Pricing model is secondary.

Hesitated if I should jump in again .. but here you go:

- this is peanuts compared to the other costs of home automation - security spy alone costs more and does very little.
- it is a very stable product. High quality deliverables need money to produce the product.
- if a company does not make enough money, quality will suffer and eventually they will disappear.

==> the real question I have is: besides the changed cost structure will you guys (Matt and Jay) add more resources to deliver things faster?

Karl

I just want to throw in my opinion, even though I am not from the US of A as refereed to earlier in this thread.

Software users today requires frequent updates of products. So if we want Indigo to be updated regularly with the latest device support instead of collecting all changes in a major update, then this must be the way to go.


But what I am more curious about, is when we can expect Indigo 7?