How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, Next?

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Posted on
Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:13 pm
ethanw offline

How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, Next?

Seriously? I find it insulting the way you inventing ways to take more money from us. Is time for me to move on that's for sure. You lock people in with their investment in the hardware and now let's proceed with highway robbery? Very very disappointed.

http://www.indigodomo.com/blog/2015/09/28/indigo-up-to-date/

I can't tell you right now with your way of thinking and this business model, you won't absolutely make it. It takes risks to to grow a business and you putting the burden on $$ /customers to strategicly grow your business is not a good model at all. Let me charge you more so I can develop more for the future is not a good model at all. Let me INVEST and develop more & smarter so I can attract more customers it is a good business model. Again at some point this cow will run of milk mate, don't be surprised when it does.
Last edited by ethanw on Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Posted on
Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:29 pm
durosity offline
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Re: How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, N

Personally I think it's a great idea. I'm very much looking forward to this new model, and Indigo 7 :D

Computer says no.


Posted on
Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:38 pm
durosity offline
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Re: How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, N

Yep. I'm fully in favour of supporting Matt & Jay, and i feel this will give them the income they need to really polish the product. My *hope* is they'll use the extra income to invest in a mobile apps developer to allow them to concentrate on the core product, while the mobile developer specialises in the area of iOS and Android (and Windows Mobile?) devices. Of course what they use it for is entirely their own decision, but regardless i'm fully confident they'll use it in the right way to make Indigo even better than it currently is.

Computer says no.

Posted on
Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:10 pm
Korey offline
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Re: How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, N

ethanw wrote:
Seriously? I find it insulting the way you inventing ways to take more money from us. Is time for me to move on that's for sure. You lock people in with their investment in the hardware and now let's proceed with highway robbery? Very very disappointed.

http://www.indigodomo.com/blog/2015/09/28/indigo-up-to-date/



How quickly you change your tune.. :roll:


viewtopic.php?f=22&t=7584&p=86172#p86172

--
Korey

Posted on
Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:37 pm
ethanw offline

Re: How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, N

Yeah sure, for what I pay the support is great and I appreciate the community. But I feel cheated when they find more creative ways to squeeze more $$ out of us. Is not changing the tune at all, actually my tune is the same, their $$ TUNE is not holding well... Is not enough that you have to pay from moving from a major version to another major version, now you have to pay even more????


Korey wrote:
ethanw wrote:
Seriously? I find it insulting the way you inventing ways to take more money from us. Is time for me to move on that's for sure. You lock people in with their investment in the hardware and now let's proceed with highway robbery? Very very disappointed.

http://www.indigodomo.com/blog/2015/09/28/indigo-up-to-date/



How quickly you change your tune.. :roll:


viewtopic.php?f=22&t=7584&p=86172#p86172

Posted on
Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:59 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, N

Are you sure you are understanding the model? There are some important points to consider, outlined in the blog post:

  • Unlike some other software subscription models, an active Indigo Up-to-Date subscription is not required to use your purchased Indigo license
  • A one year Up-to-Date subscription is included with all Indigo 7 purchases (full or upgrade)
  • Up-to-Date subscriptions entitle you to both major and minor upgrades released during the subscription period
  • Up-to-Date subscriptions include an Indigo Reflector which will no longer be available separately
There are a lot more points as well, but based on your post I'm not sure you understand the model. If you do, then that is fine. We understand the subscription model isn't going to be for everyone. Our goal with the model is to be able to provide more functionality as it is finished, versus having to push off bigger features to major upgrades at regular intervals to justify major upgrades. We would much rather concentrate on developing the software than having to plan out which major releases are going to get which buckets of new functionality. Home automation is also a very quickly evolving field, so we need to be able to stay nimble and release new functionality faster, without having to worry about timing of releases. The subscription model will give us this ability.

Lastly, we haven't announced the pricing for the subscription yet. So I'm not sure exactly how you know for sure that it will cost you more.

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Posted on
Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:31 pm
jens offline
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Re: How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, N

I think it's a god way to have a subscription and a cost, if you want more updates, if we whant a god system we need to pay, noting is free,

//Jens


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Posted on
Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:13 pm
hoff_10 offline
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Joined: Feb 14, 2014

How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, Next?

I fully support this program but switching to a subscription service just to get updates is ridiculous and only serves to milk more $ out of us. Updates should be included in the up front cost. Might be time to look at other alternatives for my home automation needs.

Also, just throwing this out there but do you guys also realize that indigo is used by many people with disabilities to be able to access the controls in their house at all and many of these people have very limited expendable income?

Posted on
Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:59 pm
ethanw offline

Re: How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, N

Matt you're insulting my intelligence and others as well. Lets keep it simple mate

Yes it will cost more, the only way is to go UP. Don't go the route of hey, you need new features, pay up, pay more, we make the rules as we go. Just ask me to pay upfront and be done with it. Don't lock me in and play this silly childish business model game. Is absolutely INSULTING

All I can say is best of luck to you guys. I am DONE with Indigo. Apple here I come


matt (support) wrote:
Are you sure you are understanding the model? There are some important points to consider, outlined in the blog post:

  • Unlike some other software subscription models, an active Indigo Up-to-Date subscription is not required to use your purchased Indigo license
  • A one year Up-to-Date subscription is included with all Indigo 7 purchases (full or upgrade)
  • Up-to-Date subscriptions entitle you to both major and minor upgrades released during the subscription period
  • Up-to-Date subscriptions include an Indigo Reflector which will no longer be available separately
There are a lot more points as well, but based on your post I'm not sure you understand the model. If you do, then that is fine. We understand the subscription model isn't going to be for everyone. Our goal with the model is to be able to provide more functionality as it is finished, versus having to push off bigger features to major upgrades at regular intervals to justify major upgrades. We would much rather concentrate on developing the software than having to plan out which major releases are going to get which buckets of new functionality. Home automation is also a very quickly evolving field, so we need to be able to stay nimble and release new functionality faster, without having to worry about timing of releases. The subscription model will give us this ability.

Lastly, we haven't announced the pricing for the subscription yet. So I'm not sure exactly how you know for sure that it will cost you more.

Posted on
Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:46 pm
RogueProeliator offline
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Re: How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, N

I have historically not been a huge fan of subscription models, but have come to the conclusion that this is the inevitable direction for virtually all software. For example, consider this:
  • Virtually all enterprises are on a subscription model with Microsoft (using their Enterprise Agreement)
  • MS Office is now almost entirely subscription model
  • Adobe's Creative Suite/Cloud is now... wait for it... subscription
  • ... many more exist, just highlighting a few "big" ones that have recently gone subscription ...
Also, think about all the other programs that you are (potentially) paying for, and threatening to bring your Home Automation to (Apple, which doesn't have a HA solution, but anyway...) iCloud is a subscription for anything but the most basic and almost useless features, Google Drive and storage is a subscription, most remote backup services are subscriptions.

One of the most compelling things about subscriptions to the developers is NOT getting more money as often it is a break-even transition. What developers often like is the consistency of the income. When major release cycles are in play, developers are faced with a boom-and-bust situation (often) in that there is a surge of money upon release and then a trickle as you go further from release. Even if the money coming in is the exact same amount, it is better to rely on $X/month instead of $Y, then $Z, then...

And you are wrong to try to call out Matt on upgrades. If a developer is faced with the boom-and-bust cycle it ABSOLUTELY requires a tradeoff of what to release now verses what makes it into the next full upgrade. In a subscription model it is easier to make a decision to release major features without holding them "hostage" until the next release.

All of the above is generic to the software subscription model - I don't have any inside info on Matt & Jay's particular situation. Again, I am not the biggest fan of subscription models, but I understand the reasoning. Users have been completely spoiled by mobile app's cheap prices and ad-supported models.

Posted on
Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:11 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, N

ethanw wrote:
Don't go the route of hey, you need new features, pay up, pay more, we make the rules as we go. Just ask me to pay upfront and be done with it. Don't lock me in and play this silly childish business model game.

hoff_10 wrote:
Updates should be included in the up front cost.


We have always charged for major upgrades (technically there was one exception to this, but it was for a good reason). We have never been a pay-once-and-get-free-upgrades for life business model. There is no way we would be in business if we were. That model works for some types of software, which don't have to evolve significantly over their lifespan, but isn't viable for a home automation platform like Indigo.

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Posted on
Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:06 pm
kw123 offline
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Re: How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, N

To throw in my 3 cents.
I have spend about $300 on indigo software , 6000 on hardware and about $400 on other software for my home automation setup
So my cost for 2.5 years is 5% Matt and jay and 95% to others. If I compare quality of these items i believe the other parts are VERY expensive compared to indigo

Now if people see this differently they should be free to go and try other things. I have tried some of them and I have wasted a lot of money on them and you had to pay extra for each little thing.

In addition if a company does not make enough money they will not survive.

But I have to say that it looks as if Matt and Jay with their new company jet must have millions of customers.

Karl


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Posted on
Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:27 am
rhanson offline
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Joined: Apr 30, 2013

Re: How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, N

I'd pay $120/yr. Easily.

If you're not charging $100/yr, you're doing it wrong. :-)

No matter what price you select, there will always be people who can afford your product, and there will always be those who would rather save a few bucks. There are lots of open-source and inferior projects for people who don't want to pay for new additions. Indigo is a robust, extensible and well-supported product, both by M+J and the entire community. The system (and the thousands of lines of code I've written to extend it to meet my needs exactly) run my daily life. I spend way more to receive much less value all over the place.

So I say price it right, and maybe offer tiers with varying levels of support or service.

Posted on
Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:52 am
Sharek326 offline
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Re: How many ways you can milk a cow? - Indigo Up To Date, N

Since so many seem to have an opinion I will offer mine up. I have only been playing in the Home Automation sandbox a little over a year. When I bought my house I researched many of the systems out there. At first Fibaro had my interest and I stayed away from anything that had a monthly subscription like IRIS. What led me to Indigo were two main factors:

- No monthly subscription
- It ran on a Mac

At the time it seemed that was what mattered most. Since my involvement I have interacted a little on these forums. Got assistance from other users with problems and have been able to evaluate the pros and cons of my Home Automation a little deeper. That being said, what Indigo does out of box it does very well. It is stable and 99% reliable.. But because of the business model both Jay and Matt have ran, it leaves a lot on the table.

- Direct connect to locks
- Voice Control
- True Geolocation built in
- Updates as fast as users want.

If changing the pricing structure brings some of that low hanging fruit into reach then I say do it. Again Jay and Matt are businessmen who have gone into business for the very reason we all do. Make a decent living doing what we love. Let the new model roll out. See what it offers and judge for yourself if what it has is worth your money. With so many Home Automation systems out there now nobody should be hard pressed to find one that suits them.

For years I paid $60+ a month for cable and realized I basically watch 3 shows. Some quick math proved I was paying almost $6 dollars an episode when Itunes offered them for $1.99. In that instance a monthly subscription didn’t offer me anything I couldn’t find somewhere else.

I also pay $4.99 for a Plexpass each month. It is reasonable priced and costs very little out of pocket each month and gives me access to features I wouldn’t otherwise have access to.

In the end for me…….Price it right. Offer up something I have an interest in and can’t get anywhere else and I remain a customer for life. Business 101

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